{"collection":"Digha Nikaya","full_text_available":true,"graph_url":"https://unchartedknowledge.5gfusion.net/v2/api/page/suttacentral_dn13/graph","html_url":"https://unchartedknowledge.5gfusion.net/v2/page/suttacentral_dn13","id":"suttacentral_dn13","license":"CC0","rights_basis":"suttacentral_bilara_data_cc0","source":"suttacentral","source_url":"https://suttacentral.net/dn13/en/sujato","summary":null,"tags":["Digha Nikaya","Early Buddhist Texts"],"text":"So I have heard. At one time the Buddha was wandering in the land of the Kosalans together with a large Sa\u1e45gha of five hundred mendicants when he arrived at a village of the Kosalan brahmins named Manas\u0101ka\u1e6da. He stayed in a mango grove on a bank of the Aciravat\u012b River to the north of Manas\u0101ka\u1e6da. Now at that time several very well-known well-to-do brahmins were residing in Manas\u0101ka\u1e6da. They included the brahmins Ca\u1e45k\u012b, T\u0101rukkha, Pokkharas\u0101ti, J\u0101nusso\u1e47i, Todeyya, and others. Then as the students V\u0101se\u1e6d\u1e6dha and Bh\u0101radv\u0101ja were going for a walk they began a discussion regarding what is the path and what is not the path. V\u0101se\u1e6d\u1e6dha said this: \u201cThis is the only straight path, the direct route that delivers one who applies it to the company of Divinity; namely, that explained by the brahmin Pokkharas\u0101ti.\u201d Bh\u0101radv\u0101ja said this: \u201cThis is the only straight path, the direct route that delivers one who applies it to the company of Divinity; namely, that explained by the brahmin T\u0101rukkha.\u201d But neither was able to persuade the other. So V\u0101se\u1e6d\u1e6dha said to Bh\u0101radv\u0101ja, \u201cBh\u0101radv\u0101ja, the ascetic Gotama\u2014a Sakyan, gone forth from a Sakyan family\u2014is staying in a mango grove on a bank of the Aciravat\u012b River to the north of Manas\u0101ka\u1e6da. He has this good reputation: \u2018That Blessed One is perfected, a fully awakened Buddha, accomplished in knowledge and conduct, holy, knower of the world, supreme guide for those fit for training, teacher of gods and humans, awakened, blessed.\u2019 Come, let\u2019s go to see him and ask him about this matter. As he answers, so we\u2019ll remember it.\u201d \u201cYes, worthy sir,\u201d replied Bh\u0101radv\u0101ja. 1. What is the Path and What is Not the Path So they went to the Buddha and exchanged greetings with him. When the greetings and polite conversation were over, they sat down to one side and V\u0101se\u1e6d\u1e6dha told him of their conversation, adding: \u201cIn this matter we have a dispute, a disagreement, a difference of opinion.\u201d \u201cSo, V\u0101se\u1e6d\u1e6dha, it seems that you say that the straight path is that explained by Pokkharas\u0101ti, while Bh\u0101radv\u0101ja says that the straight path is that explained by T\u0101rukkha. But what exactly is your disagreement about?\u201d \u201cAbout what is the path and what is not the path, worthy Gotama. Even though brahmins describe different paths\u2014the Adhvaryu brahmins, the Taittir\u012bya brahmins, the Ch\u0101ndogya brahmins, the C\u0101ndr\u0101ya\u1e47a brahmins, and the Bahv\u1e5bca brahmins\u2014all of them still lead someone who practices them to the company of Divinity. It\u2019s like a village or town that has many different roads nearby, yet all of them meet at that village. In the same way, even though brahmins describe different paths\u2014the Adhvaryu brahmins, the Taittir\u012bya brahmins, the Ch\u0101ndogya brahmins, the C\u0101ndr\u0101ya\u1e47a brahmins, and the Bahv\u1e5bca brahmins\u2014all of them still lead someone who practices them to the company of Divinity.\u201d 2. Questioning V\u0101se\u1e6d\u1e6dha \u201cDo you say, \u2018they lead someone\u2019, V\u0101se\u1e6d\u1e6dha?\u201d \u201cI do, worthy Gotama.\u201d \u201cDo you say, \u2018they lead someone\u2019, V\u0101se\u1e6d\u1e6dha?\u201d \u201cI do, worthy Gotama.\u201d \u201cDo you say, \u2018they lead someone\u2019, V\u0101se\u1e6d\u1e6dha?\u201d \u201cI do, worthy Gotama.\u201d \u201cWell, of the brahmins who are proficient in the three Vedas, V\u0101se\u1e6d\u1e6dha, is there even a single one who has seen the Divinity with their own eyes?\u201d \u201cNo, worthy Gotama.\u201d \u201cWell, has even a single one of their tutors seen the Divinity with their own eyes?\u201d \u201cNo, worthy Gotama.\u201d \u201cWell, has even a single one of their tutors\u2019 tutors seen the Divinity with their own eyes?\u201d \u201cNo, worthy Gotama.\u201d \u201cWell, has anyone back to the seventh generation of tutors seen the Divinity with their own eyes?\u201d \u201cNo, worthy Gotama.\u201d \u201cWell, what of the ancient seers of the brahmins proficient in the three Vedas, namely A\u1e6d\u1e6dhaka, V\u0101maka, V\u0101madeva, Vess\u0101mitta, Yamadaggi, A\u1e45g\u012brasa, Bh\u0101radv\u0101ja, V\u0101se\u1e6d\u1e6dha, Kassapa, and Bhagu? They were the authors and propagators of the hymns. Their hymnal was sung and propagated and compiled in ancient times; and these days, brahmins continue to sing and chant it, chanting what was chanted and teaching what was taught. Did they say: \u2018We know and see where the Divinity is or what way he lies\u2019?\u201d \u201cNo, worthy Gotama.\u201d \u201cSo it seems that none of those brahmins have seen the Divinity with their own eyes, and not even the ancient seers claimed to know where he is. Yet the brahmins proficient in the three Vedas say: \u2018We teach the path to the company of that which we neither know nor see. This is the only straight path, the direct route that delivers one who applies it to the company of Divinity.\u2019 What do you think, V\u0101se\u1e6d\u1e6dha? This being so, doesn\u2019t their statement turn out to have no demonstrable basis?\u201d \u201cClearly that\u2019s the case, worthy Gotama.\u201d \u201cGood, V\u0101se\u1e6d\u1e6dha. For it is impossible that they should teach the path to that which they neither know nor see. Suppose there was a queue of blind men, each holding the one in front: the first one does not see, the middle one does not see, and the last one does not see. In the same way, it seems to me that the brahmins\u2019 statement turns out to be comparable to a queue of blind men: the first one does not see, the middle one does not see, and the last one does not see. Their statement turns out to be a joke\u2014mere words, vacuous and hollow. What do you think, V\u0101se\u1e6d\u1e6dha? Do the brahmins proficient in the three Vedas see the sun and moon just as other folk do? And do they supplicate and entreat them, following their course from where they rise to where they set with cupped palms held in worship?\u201d \u201cYes, worthy Gotama.\u201d \u201cWhat do you think, V\u0101se\u1e6d\u1e6dha? Though this is so, are the brahmins proficient in the three Vedas able to teach the path to the company of the sun and moon, saying: \u2018This is the only straight path, the direct route that delivers one who applies it to the company of the sun and moon\u2019?\u201d \u201cNo, worthy Gotama.\u201d \u201cSo it seems that even though the brahmins proficient in the three Vedas see the sun and moon, they are not able to teach the path to the company of the sun and moon. But it seems that even though they have not seen the Divinity with their own eyes, they still claim to teach the path to the company of that which they neither know nor see. What do you think, V\u0101se\u1e6d\u1e6dha? This being so, doesn\u2019t their statement turn out to have no demonstrable basis?\u201d \u201cClearly that\u2019s the case, worthy Gotama.\u201d \u201cGood, V\u0101se\u1e6d\u1e6dha. For it is impossible that they should teach the path to that which they neither know nor see. 2.1. The Simile of the Finest Lady in the Land Suppose a man were to say, \u2018Whoever the finest lady in the land is, it is her that I want, her that I desire!\u2019 They\u2019d say to him, \u2018My man, that finest lady in the land who you desire\u2014do you know whether she\u2019s an aristocrat, a brahmin, a peasant, or a menial?\u2019 Asked this, he\u2019d say, \u2018No.\u2019 They\u2019d say to him, \u2018My friend, that finest lady in the land who you desire\u2014do you know her name or clan? Whether she\u2019s tall or short or medium? Whether her skin is black, brown, or dingy? Whether she comes from such-and-such village, town, or city?\u2019 Asked this, he\u2019d say, \u2018No.\u2019 They\u2019d say to him, \u2018My man, do you desire someone who you\u2019ve never even known or seen?\u2019 Asked this, he\u2019d say, \u2018Yes.\u2019 What do you think, V\u0101se\u1e6d\u1e6dha? This being so, doesn\u2019t that man\u2019s statement turn out to have no demonstrable basis?\u201d \u201cClearly that\u2019s the case, worthy Gotama.\u201d \u201cIn the same way, doesn\u2019t the statement of those brahmins turn out to have no demonstrable basis?\u201d \u201cClearly that\u2019s the case, worthy Gotama.\u201d \u201cGood, V\u0101se\u1e6d\u1e6dha. For it is impossible that they should teach the path to that which they neither know nor see. 2.2. The Simile of the Ladder Suppose a man was to build a ladder at the crossroads for climbing up to a stilt longhouse. They\u2019d say to him, \u2018My man, that stilt longhouse for which you\u2019re building a ladder\u2014do you know whether it\u2019s to the north, south, east, or west? Or whether it\u2019s tall or short or medium?\u2019 Asked this, he\u2019d say, \u2018No.\u2019 They\u2019d say to him, \u2018My man, are you building a ladder for a longhouse that you\u2019ve never even known or seen?\u2019 Asked this, he\u2019d say, \u2018Yes.\u2019 What do you think, V\u0101se\u1e6d\u1e6dha? This being so, doesn\u2019t that man\u2019s statement turn out to have no demonstrable basis?\u201d \u201cClearly that\u2019s the case, worthy Gotama.\u201d \u201cIn the same way, doesn\u2019t the statement of those brahmins turn out to have no demonstrable basis?\u201d \u201cClearly that\u2019s the case, worthy Gotama.\u201d \u201cGood, V\u0101se\u1e6d\u1e6dha. For it is impossible that they should teach the path to that which they neither know nor see. 2.3. The Simile of the Aciravat\u012b River Suppose the Aciravat\u012b River was full to the brim so a crow could drink from it. Then along comes a person who wants to cross over to the far shore. Standing on the near shore, they\u2019d call out to the far shore, \u2018Come here, far shore! Come here, far shore!\u2019 What do you think, V\u0101se\u1e6d\u1e6dha? Would the far shore of the Aciravat\u012b River come over to the near shore because of that man\u2019s call, request, desire, or expectation?\u201d \u201cNo, worthy Gotama.\u201d \u201cIn the same way, V\u0101se\u1e6d\u1e6dha, the brahmins proficient in the three Vedas proceed having given up those things that make one a true brahmin, and having undertaken those things that make one not a true brahmin. Yet they say: \u2018We call upon Indra! We call upon Soma! We call upon Varu\u1e47a! We call upon \u012as\u0101na! We call upon the Progenitor! We call upon the Divinity! We call upon Mahiddhi! We call upon Yama!\u2019 So long as they proceed in this way it\u2019s impossible that they will, when the body breaks up, after death, be reborn in the company of Divinity. Suppose the Aciravat\u012b River was full to the brim so a crow could drink from it. Then along comes a person who wants to cross over to the far shore. But while still on the near shore, their arms are tied tightly behind their back with a strong chain. What do you think, V\u0101se\u1e6d\u1e6dha? Could that person cross over to the far shore?\u201d \u201cNo, worthy Gotama.\u201d \u201cIn the same way, the five kinds of sensual stimulation are called \u2018chains\u2019 and \u2018fetters\u2019 in the training of the Noble One. What five? Sights known by the eye, which are likable, desirable, agreeable, pleasant, sensual, and arousing. Sounds known by the ear \u2026 Smells known by the nose \u2026 Tastes known by the tongue \u2026 Touches known by the body, which are likable, desirable, agreeable, pleasant, sensual, and arousing. These are the five kinds of sensual stimulation that are called \u2018chains\u2019 and \u2018fetters\u2019 in the training of the Noble One. The brahmins proficient in the three Vedas enjoy these five kinds of sensual stimulation tied, infatuated, attached, blind to the drawbacks, and not understanding the escape. So long as they enjoy them it\u2019s impossible that they will, when the body breaks up, after death, be reborn in the company of Divinity. Suppose the Aciravat\u012b River was full to the brim so a crow could drink from it. Then along comes a person who wants to cross over to the far shore. But they\u2019d lie down wrapped in cloth from head to foot. What do you think, V\u0101se\u1e6d\u1e6dha? Could that person cross over to the far shore?\u201d \u201cNo, worthy Gotama.\u201d \u201cIn the same way, the five hindrances are called \u2018obstacles\u2019 and \u2018hindrances\u2019 and \u2018encasings\u2019 and \u2018shrouds\u2019 in the training of the Noble One. What five? The hindrances of sensual desire, ill will, dullness and drowsiness, restlessness and remorse, and doubt. These five hindrances are called \u2018obstacles\u2019 and \u2018hindrances\u2019 and \u2018encasings\u2019 and \u2018shrouds\u2019 in the training of the Noble One. The brahmins proficient in the three Vedas are obstructed, hindered, swathed, and enveloped by these five hindrances. So long as they are so obstructed it\u2019s impossible that they will, when the body breaks up, after death, be reborn in the company of Divinity. 3. Converging What do you think, V\u0101se\u1e6d\u1e6dha? Have you heard that the brahmins who are elderly and senior, the tutors of tutors, say whether the Divinity is encumbered with possessions or not?\u201d \u201cThat he is not, worthy Gotama.\u201d \u201cIs his heart full of enmity or not?\u201d \u201cIt is not.\u201d \u201cIs his heart full of ill will or not?\u201d \u201cIt is not.\u201d \u201cIs his heart corrupted or not?\u201d \u201cIt is not.\u201d \u201cDoes he wield power or not?\u201d \u201cHe does.\u201d \u201cWhat do you think, V\u0101se\u1e6d\u1e6dha? Are the brahmins proficient in the three Vedas encumbered with possessions or not?\u201d \u201cThey are.\u201d \u201cAre their hearts full of enmity or not?\u201d \u201cThey are.\u201d \u201cAre their hearts full of ill will or not?\u201d \u201cThey are.\u201d \u201cAre their hearts corrupted or not?\u201d \u201cThey are.\u201d \u201cDo they wield power or not?\u201d \u201cThey do not.\u201d \u201cSo it seems that the brahmins proficient in the three Vedas are encumbered with possessions, but the Divinity is not. But would brahmins who are encumbered with possessions join together and converge with the Divinity, who isn\u2019t encumbered with possessions?\u201d \u201cNo, worthy Gotama.\u201d \u201cGood, V\u0101se\u1e6d\u1e6dha! It\u2019s impossible that the brahmins who are encumbered with possessions will, when the body breaks up, after death, be reborn in the company of Divinity, who isn\u2019t encumbered with possessions. And it seems that the brahmins have enmity, ill will, corruption, and do not wield power, while the Divinity has no enmity, ill will, or corruption, and who does wield power. But would brahmins who are opposite to the Divinity in all these things join together and converge with him?\u201d \u201cNo, worthy Gotama.\u201d \u201cGood, V\u0101se\u1e6d\u1e6dha! It\u2019s impossible that brahmins who are opposite to the Divinity in all these things will, when the body breaks up, after death, be reborn in the company of Divinity. Now in this regard, V\u0101se\u1e6d\u1e6dha, those brahmins proficient in the three Vedas, having dived in, sink down. Having sunk down, they undergo drowning, imagining they are crossing to the dry shore. That\u2019s why the three Vedas of the brahmins are called a \u2018salted land\u2019 and a \u2018barren land\u2019 and a \u2018disaster\u2019.\u201d When he said this, V\u0101se\u1e6d\u1e6dha said to the Buddha, \u201cI have heard, worthy Gotama, that you know the path to company with Divinity.\u201d \u201cWhat do you think, V\u0101se\u1e6d\u1e6dha? Is the village of Manas\u0101ka\u1e6da nearby?\u201d \u201cYes it is.\u201d \u201cWhat do you think, V\u0101se\u1e6d\u1e6dha? Suppose a person was born and raised in Manas\u0101ka\u1e6da. And as soon as they left the town some people asked them for the road to Manas\u0101ka\u1e6da. Would they be slow or hesitant to answer?\u201d \u201cNo, worthy Gotama. Why is that? Because they were born and raised in Manas\u0101ka\u1e6da. They\u2019re well acquainted with all the roads to the village.\u201d \u201cStill, it\u2019s possible they might be slow or hesitant to answer. But the Realized One is never slow or hesitant when questioned about the realm of divinity or the practice that leads to the realm of divinity. I understand the Divinity, the realm of divinity, and the practice that leads to the realm of divinity, practicing in accordance with which one is reborn in the realm of divinity.\u201d When he said this, V\u0101se\u1e6d\u1e6dha said to the Buddha, \u201cI have heard, worthy Gotama, that you teach the path to company with Divinity. Please teach us that path and elevate this generation of brahmins.\u201d \u201cWell then, V\u0101se\u1e6d\u1e6dha, listen and apply your mind well, I will speak.\u201d \u201cYes, worthy sir,\u201d replied V\u0101se\u1e6d\u1e6dha. 4. Teaching the Path to the Divinity The Buddha said this: \u201cIt\u2019s when a Realized One arises in the world, perfected, a fully awakened Buddha \u2026 That\u2019s how a mendicant is accomplished in ethics. \u2026 Seeing that the hindrances have been given up in them, joy springs up. Being joyful, rapture springs up. When the mind is full of rapture, the body becomes tranquil. When the body is tranquil, they feel bliss. And when blissful, the mind becomes immersed. They meditate spreading a heart full of love to one direction, and to the second, and to the third, and to the fourth. In the same way above, below, across, everywhere, all around, they spread a heart full of love to the whole world\u2014abundant, expansive, limitless, free of enmity and ill will. Suppose there was a powerful horn blower. They\u2019d easily make themselves heard in the four quarters. In the same way, when the heart\u2019s release by love has been developed like this, any limited deeds they\u2019ve done don\u2019t remain or persist there. This is a path to company with Divinity. Furthermore, a mendicant meditates spreading a heart full of compassion \u2026 They meditate spreading a heart full of rejoicing \u2026 They meditate spreading a heart full of equanimity to one direction, and to the second, and to the third, and to the fourth. In the same way above, below, across, everywhere, all around, they spread a heart full of equanimity to the whole world\u2014abundant, expansive, limitless, free of enmity and ill will. Suppose there was a powerful horn blower. They\u2019d easily make themselves heard in the four quarters. In the same way, when the heart\u2019s release by equanimity has been developed and cultivated like this, any limited deeds they\u2019ve done don\u2019t remain or persist there. This too is a path to company with Divinity. What do you think, V\u0101se\u1e6d\u1e6dha? When a mendicant meditates like this, are they encumbered with possessions or not?\u201d \u201cThey are not.\u201d \u201cIs their heart full of enmity or not?\u201d \u201cIt is not.\u201d \u201cIs their heart full of ill will or not?\u201d \u201cIt is not.\u201d \u201cIs their heart corrupted or not?\u201d \u201cIt is not.\u201d \u201cDo they wield power or not?\u201d \u201cThey do.\u201d \u201cSo it seems that that mendicant is not encumbered with possessions, and neither is the Divinity. Would a mendicant who is not encumbered with possessions join together and converge with the Divinity, who isn\u2019t encumbered with possessions?\u201d \u201cYes, worthy Gotama.\u201d \u201cGood, V\u0101se\u1e6d\u1e6dha! It\u2019s quite possible that a mendicant who is not encumbered with possessions will, when the body breaks up, after death, be reborn in the company of Divinity, who isn\u2019t encumbered with possessions. And it seems that that mendicant has no enmity, ill will, corruption, and does wield power, while the Divinity is the same in all these things. Would a mendicant who is the same as the Divinity in all things join together and converge with him?\u201d \u201cYes, worthy Gotama.\u201d \u201cGood, V\u0101se\u1e6d\u1e6dha! It\u2019s quite possible that that mendicant will, when the body breaks up, after death, be reborn in the company of Divinity.\u201d When he had spoken, V\u0101se\u1e6d\u1e6dha and Bh\u0101radv\u0101ja said to him, \u201cExcellent, worthy Gotama! Excellent! As if he were righting the overturned, or revealing the hidden, or pointing out the path to the lost, or lighting a lamp in the dark so people with clear eyes can see what\u2019s there, worthy Gotama has made the teaching clear in many ways. We go for refuge to the worthy Gotama, to the teaching, and to the mendicant Sa\u1e45gha. From this day forth, may the worthy Gotama remember us as lay followers who have gone for refuge for life.\u201d","title":"Experts in the Three Vedas","tradition":"Digha Nikaya","translated_text":null,"word_count":3188}