{"collection":"Digha Nikaya","full_text_available":true,"graph_url":"https://unchartedknowledge.5gfusion.net/v2/api/page/suttacentral_dn23/graph","html_url":"https://unchartedknowledge.5gfusion.net/v2/page/suttacentral_dn23","id":"suttacentral_dn23","license":"CC0","rights_basis":"suttacentral_bilara_data_cc0","source":"suttacentral","source_url":"https://suttacentral.net/dn23/en/sujato","summary":null,"tags":["Digha Nikaya","Early Buddhist Texts"],"text":"So I have heard. At one time Venerable Kassapa the Prince was wandering in the land of the Kosalans together with a large Sa\u1e45gha of five hundred mendicants when he arrived at a Kosalan citadel named Setavy\u0101. He stayed in the rosewood grove to the north of Setavy\u0101. Now at that time the chieftain P\u0101y\u0101si was living in Setavy\u0101. It was a crown property given by King Pasenadi of Kosala, teeming with living creatures, full of hay, wood, water, and grain, a royal park endowed to a brahmin. 1. On P\u0101y\u0101si Now at that time P\u0101y\u0101si had the following harmful misconception: \u201cThere is no afterlife. No beings are reborn spontaneously. There\u2019s no fruit or result of good and bad deeds.\u201d The brahmins and householders of Setavy\u0101 heard, \u201cIt seems the ascetic Kassapa the Prince\u2014a disciple of the ascetic Gotama\u2014is staying in the rosewood grove to the north of Setavy\u0101. He has this good reputation: \u2018He is astute, competent, intelligent, learned, a brilliant speaker, eloquent, mature, a perfected one.\u2019 It\u2019s good to see such perfected ones.\u201d Then, exiting Setavy\u0101, they formed into companies and headed north to the grove. Now at that time the chieftain P\u0101y\u0101si had retired to the upper floor of his stilt longhouse for his midday nap. He saw the brahmins and householders heading north toward the grove, and addressed his butler, \u201cMy butler, why are the brahmins and householders heading north toward the grove?\u201d \u201cThe ascetic Kassapa the Prince\u2014a disciple of the ascetic Gotama\u2014is staying in the rosewood grove to the north of Setavy\u0101. He has this good reputation: \u2018He is astute, competent, intelligent, learned, a brilliant speaker, eloquent, mature, a perfected one.\u2019 They\u2019re going to see that Kassapa the Prince.\u201d \u201cWell then, go to the brahmins and householders and say to them: \u2018Worthy sir, the chieftain P\u0101y\u0101si asks you to wait, as he will also go to see the ascetic Kassapa the Prince.\u2019 Before Kassapa the Prince persuades those foolish and incompetent brahmins and householders that there is an afterlife, there are beings reborn spontaneously, and there is a fruit or result of good and bad deeds\u2014 for none of these things are true!\u201d \u201cYes, worthy sir,\u201d replied the butler, and did as he was asked. Then P\u0101y\u0101si escorted by the brahmins and householders, went up to Kassapa the Prince, and exchanged greetings with him. When the greetings and polite conversation were over, he sat down to one side. Before sitting down to one side, some of the brahmins and householders of Setavy\u0101 bowed, some exchanged greetings and polite conversation, some held up their cupped palms toward Kassapa the Prince, some announced their name and clan, while some kept silent. 2. Nihilism Seated to one side, the chieftain P\u0101y\u0101si said to Venerable Kassapa the Prince, \u201cWorthy Kassapa, this is my doctrine and view: \u2018There is no afterlife. No beings are reborn spontaneously. There\u2019s no fruit or result of good and bad deeds.\u2019\u201d \u201cChieftain, may I never see or hear of anyone holding such a doctrine or view! For how on earth can anyone say such a thing? 2.1. The Simile of the Moon and Sun Well then, chieftain, I\u2019ll ask you about this in return, and you can answer as you like. What do you think, chieftain? Are the moon and sun in this world or the other world? Are they gods or humans?\u201d \u201cThey are in the other world, worthy Kassapa, and they are gods, not humans.\u201d \u201cBy this method it ought to be proven that there is an afterlife, there are beings reborn spontaneously, and there is a fruit or result of good and bad deeds.\u201d \u201cEven though the worthy Kassapa says this, still I think that there is no afterlife, no beings are reborn spontaneously, and there\u2019s no fruit or result of good and bad deeds.\u201d \u201cIs there a method by which you can prove what you say?\u201d \u201cThere is, worthy Kassapa.\u201d \u201cHow, exactly, chieftain?\u201d \u201cWell, I have friends and colleagues, relatives and kin who kill living creatures, steal, and commit sexual misconduct. They use speech that\u2019s false, backbiting, harsh, or nonsensical. And they\u2019re covetous, malicious, with wrong view. Some time later they become sick, suffering, gravely ill. When I know that they will not recover from their illness, I go to them and say, \u2018Worthy sir, there are some ascetics and brahmins who have this doctrine and view: \u201cThose who kill living creatures, steal, and commit sexual misconduct; use speech that\u2019s false, backbiting, harsh, or nonsensical; and are covetous, malicious, and have wrong view\u2014when their body breaks up, after death, are reborn in a place of loss, a bad place, the underworld, hell.\u201d You do all these things. If what those ascetics and brahmins say is true, when your body breaks up, after death, you\u2019ll be reborn in a place of loss, a bad place, the underworld, hell. If that happens, worthy sir, come and tell me that there is an afterlife, there are beings reborn spontaneously, and there is a fruit or result of good and bad deeds. I trust you and believe you. Anything you see will be just as if I\u2019ve seen it for myself.\u2019 They agree to this. But they don\u2019t come back to tell me, nor do they send a messenger. This is the method by which I prove that there is no afterlife, no beings are reborn spontaneously, and there\u2019s no fruit or result of good and bad deeds.\u201d 2.2. The Simile of the Bandit \u201cWell then, chieftain, I\u2019ll ask you about this in return, and you can answer as you like. What do you think, chieftain? Suppose they were to arrest a bandit, a criminal and present him to you, saying, \u2018Sir, this is a bandit, a criminal. Punish him as you will.\u2019 Then you\u2019d say to them, \u2018Well then, my men, tie this man\u2019s arms tightly behind his back with a strong rope. Shave his head and march him from street to street and square to square to the beating of a harsh drum. Then take him out the south gate and there, at the place of execution to the south of the city, chop off his head.\u2019 Saying, \u2018Good,\u2019 they\u2019d do as they were told, sitting him down at the place of execution. Could that bandit get the executioners to wait, saying, \u2018Please, good executioners! I have friends and colleagues, relatives and kin in such-and-such village or town. Wait until I\u2019ve visited them, then I\u2019ll come back\u2019? Or would they just chop off his head as he prattled on?\u201d \u201cThey\u2019d just chop off his head.\u201d \u201cSo even a human bandit couldn\u2019t get his human executioners to stay his execution. What then of your friends and colleagues, relatives and kin who are reborn in a lower realm after doing bad things? Could they get the wardens of hell to wait, saying, \u2018Please, good wardens of hell! Wait until I\u2019ve gone to the chieftain P\u0101y\u0101si to tell him that there is an afterlife, there are beings reborn spontaneously, and there is a fruit or result of good and bad deeds\u2019? By this method, too, it ought to be proven that there is an afterlife, there are beings reborn spontaneously, and there is a fruit or result of good and bad deeds.\u201d \u201cEven though the worthy Kassapa says this, still I think that there is no afterlife.\u201d \u201cIs there a method by which you can prove what you say?\u201d \u201cThere is, worthy Kassapa.\u201d \u201cHow, exactly, chieftain?\u201d \u201cWell, I have friends and colleagues, relatives and kin who refrain from killing living creatures, stealing, and sexual misconduct. They refrain from speech that\u2019s false, backbiting, harsh, or nonsensical. And they\u2019re content, kind-hearted, with right view. Some time later they become sick, suffering, gravely ill. When I know that they will not recover from their illness, I go to them and say, \u2018Worthy sir, there are some ascetics and brahmins who have this doctrine and view: \u201cThose who refrain from killing living creatures, stealing, and sexual misconduct; who refrain from speech that\u2019s false, backbiting, harsh, or nonsensical; and are content, kind-hearted, with right view\u2014when their body breaks up, after death, are reborn in a good place, a heavenly realm.\u201d You do all these things. If what those ascetics and brahmins say is true, when your body breaks up, after death, you\u2019ll be reborn in a good place, a heavenly realm. If that happens, worthy sir, come and tell me that there is an afterlife. I trust you and believe you. Anything you see will be just as if I\u2019ve seen it for myself.\u2019 They agree to this. But they don\u2019t come back to tell me, nor do they send a messenger. This is the method by which I prove that there is no afterlife.\u201d 2.3. The Simile of the Sewer \u201cWell then, chieftain, I shall give you a simile. For by means of a simile some sensible people understand the meaning of what is said. Suppose there were a man sunk over his head in a sewer. Then you were to order someone to pull him out of the sewer, and they\u2019d agree to do so. Then you\u2019d tell them to carefully scrape the dung off that man\u2019s body with bamboo scrapers, and they\u2019d agree to do so. Then you\u2019d tell them to carefully scrub that man\u2019s body down with pale clay three times, and they\u2019d do so. Then you\u2019d tell them to smear that man\u2019s body with oil, and carefully wash him down with fine paste three times, and they\u2019d do so. Then you\u2019d tell them to dress that man\u2019s hair and beard, and they\u2019d do so. Then you\u2019d tell them to provide that man with costly garlands, makeup, and clothes, and they\u2019d do so. Then you\u2019d tell them to bring that man up to the stilt longhouse and set him up with the five kinds of sensual stimulation, and they\u2019d do so. What do you think, chieftain? Now that man is nicely bathed and anointed, with hair and beard dressed, bedecked with garlands and bracelets, dressed in white, supplied and provided with the five kinds of sensual stimulation upstairs in the royal longhouse. Would he want to plunge back into that sewer again?\u201d \u201cNo, worthy Kassapa. Why is that? Because that sewer is filthy, stinking, disgusting, and repulsive, and it\u2019s regarded as such.\u201d \u201cIn the same way, chieftain, to the gods, human beings are filthy, stinking, disgusting, and repulsive, and are regarded as such. The smell of humans reaches the gods even a hundred leagues away. What then of your friends and colleagues, relatives and kin who are reborn in a higher realm after doing good things? Will they come back to tell you that there is an afterlife? By this method, too, it ought to be proven that there is an afterlife.\u201d \u201cEven though the worthy Kassapa says this, still I think that there is no afterlife.\u201d \u201cCan you prove it?\u201d \u201cI can.\u201d \u201cHow, exactly, chieftain?\u201d \u201cWell, I have friends and colleagues, relatives and kin who refrain from killing living creatures and so on. Some time later they become sick, suffering, gravely ill. When I know that they will not recover from their illness, I go to them and say, \u2018Worthy sir, there are some ascetics and brahmins who have this doctrine and view: \u201cThose who refrain from killing living creatures and so on are reborn in a good place, a heavenly realm, in the company of the gods of the thirty-three.\u201d You do all these things. If what those ascetics and brahmins say is true, when your body breaks up, after death, you\u2019ll be reborn in the company of the gods of the thirty-three. If that happens, worthy sir, come and tell me that there is an afterlife. I trust you and believe you. Anything you see will be just as if I\u2019ve seen it for myself.\u2019 They agree to this. But they don\u2019t come back to tell me, nor do they send a messenger. This is how I prove that there is no afterlife.\u201d 2.4. The Simile of the gods of the thirty-three \u201cWell then, chieftain, I\u2019ll ask you about this in return, and you can answer as you like. A hundred human years are equivalent to one day and night for the gods of the thirty-three. Thirty such days make a month, and twelve months make a year. The gods of the thirty-three have a lifespan of a thousand such years. Now, as to your friends who are reborn in the company of the gods of the thirty-three after doing good things. If they think, \u2018First I\u2019ll amuse myself for two or three days, supplied and provided with the five kinds of heavenly sensual stimulation. Then I\u2019ll go back to P\u0101y\u0101si and tell him that there is an afterlife.\u2019 Would they come back to tell you that there is an afterlife?\u201d \u201cNo, worthy Kassapa. For I would be long dead by then. But worthy Kassapa, who has told you that the gods of the thirty-three exist, or that they have such a long lifespan? I don\u2019t believe you.\u201d 2.5. Blind From Birth \u201cChieftain, suppose there was a person blind from birth. They couldn\u2019t see sights that are dark or bright, or blue, yellow, red, or magenta. They couldn\u2019t see even and uneven ground, or the stars, or the moon and sun. They\u2019d say, \u2018There\u2019s no such thing as dark and bright sights, and no one who sees them. There\u2019s no such thing as blue, yellow, red, magenta, even and uneven ground, stars, moon and sun, and no one who sees these things. I don\u2019t know it or see it, therefore it doesn\u2019t exist.\u2019 Would they be speaking rightly?\u201d \u201cNo, worthy Kassapa. There are such things as dark and bright sights, and one who sees them. And those other things are real, too, as is the one who sees them. So it\u2019s not right to say this: \u2018I don\u2019t know it or see it, therefore it doesn\u2019t exist.\u2019\u201d \u201cIn the same way, chieftain, when you tell me you don\u2019t believe me you seem like the blind man in the simile. You can\u2019t see the other world the way you think, with the eye of the flesh. There are ascetics and brahmins who live in the wilderness, frequenting remote lodgings in the wilderness and the forest. Meditating diligent, keen, and resolute, they purify the heavenly eye, the power of clairvoyance. With clairvoyance that is purified and superhuman, they see this world and the other world, and sentient beings who are spontaneously reborn. That\u2019s how to see the other world, not how you think, with the eye of the flesh. By this method, too, it ought to be proven that there is an afterlife.\u201d \u201cEven though the worthy Kassapa says this, still I think that there is no afterlife.\u201d \u201cCan you prove it?\u201d \u201cI can.\u201d \u201cHow, exactly, chieftain?\u201d \u201cWell, I see ascetics and brahmins who are ethical, of good character, who want to live and don\u2019t want to die, who want to be happy and recoil from pain. I think to myself, \u2018If those ascetics and brahmins knew that things were going to be better for them after death, they\u2019d drink poison, take their lives, hang themselves, or throw themselves off a cliff. They mustn\u2019t know that things are going to be better for them after death. That\u2019s why they are ethical, of good character, wanting to live and not wanting to die, wanting to be happy and recoiling from pain.\u2019 This is the method by which I prove that there is no afterlife.\u201d 2.6. The Simile of the Pregnant Woman \u201cWell then, chieftain, I shall give you a simile. For by means of a simile some sensible people understand the meaning of what is said. Once upon a time, a certain brahmin had two wives. One had a son ten or twelve years of age, while the other was pregnant and about to give birth. Then the brahmin passed away. So the youth said to his mother\u2019s co-wife, \u2018Madam, all the money, grain, silver, and gold is mine, and you get nothing. Transfer to me my father\u2019s inheritance.\u2019 But the brahmin lady said, \u2018Wait, my dear, until I give birth. If it\u2019s a boy, one portion shall be his. If it\u2019s a girl, she will be your reward.\u2019 But for a second time, and a third time, the youth insisted that the entire inheritance must be his. So the brahmin lady took a knife, went to her bedroom, and sliced open her belly, thinking, \u2018Until I give birth\u2014whether it\u2019s a boy or a girl!\u2019 She destroyed her own life and that of the fetus, as well as any wealth. Being foolish and incompetent, she sought an inheritance irrationally and fell to ruin and disaster. In the same way, chieftain, being foolish and incompetent, you\u2019re seeking the other world irrationally and will fall to ruin and disaster, just like that brahmin lady. Good ascetics and brahmins don\u2019t force what is unripe to ripen; rather, they wait for it to ripen. For the life of astute ascetics and brahmins is beneficial. So long as they remain, good ascetics and brahmins brim with merit, and act for the welfare and happiness of the people, out of sympathy for the world, for the benefit, welfare, and happiness of gods and humans. By this method, too, it ought to be proven that there is an afterlife.\u201d \u201cEven though the worthy Kassapa says this, still I think that there is no afterlife.\u201d \u201cCan you prove it?\u201d \u201cI can.\u201d \u201cHow, exactly, chieftain?\u201d \u201cSuppose they were to arrest a bandit, a criminal and present him to me, saying, \u2018Sir, this is a bandit, a criminal. Punish him as you will.\u2019 I say to them, \u2018Well then, worthy sir, place this man in a pot while he\u2019s still alive. Close up the mouth, bind it up with damp leather, and seal it with a thick coat of damp clay. Then lift it up on a stove and light the fire.\u2019 They agree, and do what I ask. When we know that that man has passed away, we lift down the pot and break it open, uncover the mouth, and slowly peek inside, thinking, \u2018Hopefully we\u2019ll see his soul escaping.\u2019 But we don\u2019t see his soul escaping. This is how I prove that there is no afterlife.\u201d 2.7. The Simile of the Dream \u201cWell then, chieftain, I\u2019ll ask you about this in return, and you can answer as you like. Do you recall ever having a midday nap and seeing delightful parks, woods, meadows, and lotus ponds in a dream?\u201d \u201cI do, worthy Kassapa.\u201d \u201cAt that time were you guarded by hunchbacks, dwarves, coquettes, and maidens?\u201d \u201cI was.\u201d \u201cBut did they see your soul entering or leaving?\u201d \u201cNo they did not.\u201d \u201cSo if they couldn\u2019t even see your soul entering or leaving while you were still alive, how could you see the soul of a dead man? By this method, too, it ought to be proven that there is an afterlife, there are beings reborn spontaneously, and there is a fruit or result of good and bad deeds.\u201d \u201cEven though the worthy Kassapa says this, still I think that there is no afterlife.\u201d \u201cCan you prove it?\u201d \u201cI can.\u201d \u201cHow, exactly, chieftain?\u201d \u201cSuppose they were to arrest a bandit, a criminal and present him to me, saying, \u2018Sir, this is a bandit, a criminal. Punish him as you will.\u2019 I say to them, \u2018Well then, worthy sir, weigh this man with scales while he\u2019s still alive. Then strangle him with a bowstring, and when he\u2019s dead, weigh him again.\u2019 They agree, and do what I ask. So long as they are alive, they\u2019re lighter, softer, more flexible. But when they die they become heavier, stiffer, less flexible. This is how I prove that there is no afterlife.\u201d 2.8. The Simile of the Hot Iron Ball \u201cWell then, chieftain, I shall give you a simile. For by means of a simile some sensible people understand the meaning of what is said. Suppose a person was to heat an iron ball all day until it was burning, blazing, and glowing, and then they weigh it with scales. After some time, when it had cooled and become quenched, they\u2019d weigh it again. When would that iron ball be lighter, softer, and more workable\u2014when it\u2019s burning or when it\u2019s cool?\u201d \u201cSo long as the iron ball is full of heat and air\u2014burning, blazing, and glowing\u2014it\u2019s lighter, softer, and more workable. But when it lacks heat and air\u2014cooled and quenched\u2014it\u2019s heavier, stiffer, and less workable.\u201d \u201cIn the same way, so long as this body is full of life and warmth and consciousness it\u2019s lighter, softer, and more flexible. But when it lacks life and warmth and consciousness it\u2019s heavier, stiffer, and less flexible. By this method, too, it ought to be proven that there is an afterlife.\u201d \u201cEven though the worthy Kassapa says this, still I think that there is no afterlife.\u201d \u201cCan you prove it?\u201d \u201cI can.\u201d \u201cHow, exactly, chieftain?\u201d \u201cSuppose they were to arrest a bandit, a criminal and present him to me, saying, \u2018Sir, this is a bandit, a criminal. Punish him as you will.\u2019 I say to them, \u2018Well then, worthy sir, take this man\u2019s life without damaging his outer skin, inner skin, flesh, sinews, bones, or marrow. Hopefully we\u2019ll see his soul escaping.\u2019 They agree, and do what I ask. When he\u2019s nearly dead, I tell them to lay him on his back in hope of seeing his soul escape. They do so. But we don\u2019t see his soul escaping. I tell them to lay him bent over, to lay him on his side, to lay him on the other side; to stand him upright, to stand him upside down; to strike him with fists, stones, rods, and swords; and to give him a good shaking in hope of seeing his soul escape. They do all these things. But we don\u2019t see his soul escaping. For him the eye itself is present, and so are those sights. Yet he does not experience that sense-field. The ear itself is present, and so are those sounds. Yet he does not experience that sense-field. The nose itself is present, and so are those smells. Yet he does not experience that sense-field. The tongue itself is present, and so are those tastes. Yet he does not experience that sense-field. The body itself is present, and so are those touches. Yet he does not experience that sense-field. This is how I prove that there is no afterlife.\u201d 2.9. The Simile of the Horn Blower \u201cWell then, chieftain, I shall give you a simile. For by means of a simile some sensible people understand the meaning of what is said. Once upon a time, a certain horn blower took his horn and traveled to a borderland, where he went to a certain village. Standing in the middle of the village, he sounded his horn three times, then placed it on the ground and sat down to one side. Then the people of the borderland thought, \u2018Oh my, what is making this sound, so arousing, sensuous, intoxicating, infatuating, and captivating?\u2019 They gathered around the horn blower and said, \u2018Oh my, what is making this sound, so arousing, sensuous, intoxicating, infatuating, and captivating?\u2019 \u2018The sound is made by this, which is called a horn.\u2019 They laid that horn on its back, saying, \u2018Speak, good horn! Speak, good horn!\u2019 But still the horn made no sound. Then they lay the horn bent over, they lay it on its side, they lay it on its other side; they stood it upright, they stood it upside down; they struck it with fists, stones, rods, and swords; and they gave it a good shake, saying, \u2018Speak, good horn! Speak, good horn!\u2019 But still the horn made no sound. So the horn blower thought, \u2018How foolish are these borderland folk! For how on earth can they seek the sound of a horn so irrationally?\u2019 And as they looked on, he picked up the horn, sounded it three times, and took it away with him. Then the people of the borderland thought, \u2018So, it seems, when what is called a horn is accompanied by a person, effort, and wind, it makes a sound. But when these things are absent it makes no sound.\u2019 In the same way, so long as this body is full of life and warmth and consciousness it walks back and forth, stands, sits, and lies down. It sees sights with the eye, hears sounds with the ear, smells odors with the nose, tastes flavors with the tongue, encounters touches with the body, and knows ideas with the mind. But when it lacks life and warmth and consciousness it does none of these things. By this method, too, it ought to be proven that there is an afterlife.\u201d \u201cEven though the worthy Kassapa says this, still I think that there is no afterlife.\u201d \u201cCan you prove it?\u201d \u201cI can.\u201d \u201cHow, exactly, chieftain?\u201d \u201cSuppose they were to arrest a bandit, a criminal and present him to me, saying, \u2018Sir, this is a bandit, a criminal. Punish him as you will.\u2019 I say to them, \u2018Well then, worthy sir, cut open this man\u2019s outer skin. Hopefully we might see his soul.\u2019 They cut open his outer skin, but we see no soul. I say to them, \u2018Well then, worthy sir, cut open his inner skin, flesh, sinews, bones, or marrow. Hopefully we\u2019ll see his soul.\u2019 They do so, but we see no soul. This is how I prove that there is no afterlife.\u201d 2.10. The Simile of the Fire-Worshiping Matted-Hair Ascetic \u201cWell then, chieftain, I shall give you a simile. For by means of a simile some sensible people understand the meaning of what is said. Once upon a time, a certain fire-worshiping matted-hair ascetic settled in a leaf hut in a wilderness region. Then a caravan came out from a certain country. It stayed for one night not far from that ascetic\u2019s hermitage, and then moved on. The ascetic thought, \u2018Why don\u2019t I go to that caravan\u2019s campsite? Hopefully I\u2019ll find something useful there.\u2019 So he went, and he saw a little baby boy abandoned there. When he saw this he thought, \u2018It\u2019s not proper for me to look on while a human being dies. Why don\u2019t I bring this boy back to my hermitage, nurse him, provide for him, and raise him?\u2019 So that\u2019s what he did. When the boy was ten or twelve years old, the ascetic had some business come up in the country. So he said to the boy, \u2018My dear, I wish to go to the country. Serve the sacred flame. Do not extinguish it. But if you should extinguish it, here is the hatchet, the firewood, and the bundle of drill-sticks. Light the fire and serve it.\u2019 And having instructed the boy, the ascetic went to the country. But the boy was so engrossed in his play, the fire went out. He thought, \u2018My father told me to serve the sacred flame. Why don\u2019t I light it again and serve it?\u2019 So he chopped the bundle of drill-sticks with the hatchet, thinking, \u2018Hopefully I\u2019ll get a fire!\u2019 But he still got no fire. He split the bundle of drill-sticks into two, three, four, five, ten, or a hundred parts. He chopped them into splinters, pounded them in a mortar, and swept them away in a strong wind, thinking, \u2018Hopefully I\u2019ll get a fire!\u2019 But he still got no fire. Then the matted-hair ascetic, having concluded his business in the country, returned to his own hermitage, and said to the boy, \u2018I trust, my dear, that the fire didn\u2019t go out?\u2019 And the boy told him what had happened. Then the ascetic thought, \u2018How foolish is this boy, how incompetent! For how on earth can he seek a fire so irrationally?\u2019 So while the boy looked on, he took a bundle of fire-sticks, lit the fire, and said, \u2018Dear boy, this is how to light a fire. Not the foolish and incompetent way you sought it so irrationally.\u2019 In the same way, chieftain, being foolish and incompetent, you seek the other world irrationally. Let go of this harmful misconception, chieftain, let go of it! Don\u2019t create lasting harm and suffering for yourself!\u201d \u201cEven though the worthy Kassapa says this, still I\u2019m not able to let go of that harmful misconception. King Pasenadi of Kosala knows my views, and so do foreign kings. If I let go of this harmful misconception, there will be some who say to me, \u2018How foolish is the chieftain P\u0101y\u0101si, how incompetent, that he should hold on to a mistake!\u2019 I shall carry on with this view out of anger, contempt, and spite!\u201d 2.11. The Simile of the Two Caravan Leaders \u201cWell then, chieftain, I shall give you a simile. For by means of a simile some sensible people understand the meaning of what is said. Once upon a time, a large caravan of a thousand wagons traveled from a country in the east to the west. Wherever they went they quickly used up the grass, wood, water, and the green foliage. Now, that caravan had two leaders, each in charge of five hundred wagons. They thought, \u2018This is a large caravan of a thousand wagons. Wherever we go we quickly use up the grass, wood, water, and the green foliage. Why don\u2019t we split the caravan in two halves?\u2019 So that\u2019s what they did. One caravan leader, having prepared much grass, wood, and water, started the caravan. After two or three days\u2019 journey he saw a dark man with red eyes coming the other way in a donkey cart with muddy wheels. He was armored with a quiver and wreathed with yellow lotus, his clothes and hair all wet. Seeing him, he said, \u2018Worthy sir, where do you come from?\u2019 \u2018From such-and-such a country.\u2019 \u2018And where are you going?\u2019 \u2018To the country named such-and-such.\u2019 \u2018But has there been much rain in the desert up ahead?\u2019 \u2018Indeed there has, worthy sir. The tracks are sprinkled with water, and there is much grass, wood, and water. Discard your grass, wood, and water. Your wagons will move swiftly when lightly-laden, so don\u2019t tire your draught teams.\u2019 So the caravan leader addressed his drivers, \u2018This man says that there has been much rain in the desert up ahead. He advises us to discard the grass, wood, and water. The wagons will move swiftly when lightly-laden, and won\u2019t tire our draught teams. So let\u2019s discard the grass, wood, and water and restart the caravan with lightly-laden wagons.\u2019 \u2018Yes, worthy sir,\u2019 the drivers replied, and that\u2019s what they did. But in the caravan\u2019s first campsite they saw no grass, wood, or water. And in the second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, and seventh campsites they saw no grass, wood, or water. And all fell to ruin and disaster. And the men and beasts in that caravan were all devoured by that non-human spirit. Only their bones were left over. Now, when the second caravan leader knew that the first caravan was well underway, he prepared much grass, wood, and water and started the caravan. After two or three days\u2019 journey he saw a dark man with red eyes coming the other way in a donkey cart with muddy wheels. He was armored with a quiver and wreathed with yellow lotus, his clothes and hair all wet. Seeing him, he said, \u2018Worthy sir, where do you come from?\u2019 \u2018From such-and-such a country.\u2019 \u2018And where are you going?\u2019 \u2018To the country named such-and-such.\u2019 \u2018But has there been much rain in the desert up ahead?\u2019 \u2018Indeed there has, worthy sir. The tracks are sprinkled with water, and there is much grass, wood, and water. Discard your grass, wood, and water. Your wagons will move swiftly when lightly-laden, so don\u2019t tire your draught teams.\u2019 So the caravan leader addressed his drivers, \u2018This man says that there has been much rain in the desert up ahead. He advises us to discard the grass, wood, and water. The wagons will move swiftly when lightly-laden, and won\u2019t tire our draught teams. But this person is neither our friend nor relative. How can we proceed out of trust in him? We shouldn\u2019t discard any grass, wood, or water, but continue with our goods as laden. We shall not discard any old stock.\u2019 \u2018Yes, worthy sir,\u2019 the drivers replied, and they restarted the caravan with the goods as laden. And in the caravan\u2019s first campsite they saw no grass, wood, or water. And in the second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, and seventh campsites they saw no grass, wood, or water. And they saw the other caravan that had come to ruin. And they saw the bones of the men and beasts who had been devoured by that non-human spirit. So the caravan leader addressed his drivers, \u2018This caravan came to ruin, as happens when guided by a foolish caravan leader. Well then, worthy sir, discard any of our merchandise that\u2019s of little value, and take what\u2019s valuable from this caravan.\u2019 \u2018Yes, worthy sir\u2019 replied the drivers, and that\u2019s what they did. They crossed over the desert safely, as happens when guided by an astute caravan leader. In the same way, chieftain, being foolish and incompetent, you will come to ruin seeking the other world irrationally, like the first caravan leader. And those who think you\u2019re worth listening to and trusting will also come to ruin, like the drivers. Let go of this harmful misconception, chieftain, let go of it! Don\u2019t create lasting harm and suffering for yourself!\u201d \u201cEven though the worthy Kassapa says this, still I\u2019m not able to let go of that harmful misconception. King Pasenadi of Kosala knows my views, and so do foreign kings. I shall carry on with this view out of anger, contempt, and spite!\u201d 2.12. The Simile of the Dung-Carrier \u201cWell then, chieftain, I shall give you a simile. For by means of a simile some sensible people understand the meaning of what is said. Once upon a time, a certain swineherd went from his own village to another village. There he saw a large pile of dry dung abandoned. He thought, \u2018This pile of dry dung can serve as food for my pigs. Why don\u2019t I carry it off?\u2019 So he spread out his upper robe, shoveled the dry dung onto it, tied it up into a parcel, lifted it on to his head, and went on his way. While on his way a large storm out of season poured down. Smeared with leaking, oozing dung down to his fingernails, he kept on carrying the load of dung. When people saw him they said, \u2018Have you gone mad, lad? Have you lost your mind? For how on earth can you, smeared with leaking, oozing dung down to your fingernails, keep on carrying that load of dung?\u2019 \u2018You\u2019re the mad ones, lads! You\u2019re the ones who\u2019ve lost your minds! For this will serve as food for my pigs.\u2019 In the same way, chieftain, you seem like the dung carrier in the simile. Let go of this harmful misconception, chieftain, let go of it! Don\u2019t create lasting harm and suffering for yourself!\u201d \u201cEven though the worthy Kassapa says this, still I\u2019m not able to let go of that harmful misconception. King Pasenadi of Kosala knows my views, and so do foreign kings. I shall carry on with this view out of anger, contempt, and spite!\u201d 2.13. The Simile of the Gamblers \u201cWell then, chieftain, I shall give you a simile. For by means of a simile some sensible people understand the meaning of what is said. Once upon a time, two gamblers were playing with seed dice. One gambler, every time they took a bad hand, swallowed the losing seed. The second gambler saw him, and said, \u2018Well, dear, you\u2019ve won it all! Give me the seed dice, I will roll them.\u2019 \u2018Yes, dear,\u2019 the gambler replied, and gave them. Then the gambler soaked the seed dice in poison and said to the other, \u2018Come, dear, let\u2019s play seed dice.\u2019 \u2018Yes, dear,\u2019 the other gambler replied. And for a second time the gamblers played with seed dice. And for the second time, every time they took a bad hand, that gambler swallowed the losing seed. The second gambler saw him, and said, \u2018The man swallows the dice without realizing they\u2019re smeared with most terrible venom. Swallow, you damn cheat, swallow! Soon you\u2019ll know the bitter fruit!\u2019 In the same way, chieftain, you seem like the gambler in the simile. Let go of this harmful misconception, chieftain, let go of it! Don\u2019t create lasting harm and suffering for yourself!\u201d \u201cEven though the worthy Kassapa says this, still I\u2019m not able to let go of that harmful misconception. King Pasenadi of Kosala knows my views, and so do foreign kings. I shall carry on with this view out of anger, contempt, and spite!\u201d 2.14. The Simile of the Man Who Carried Hemp \u201cWell then, chieftain, I shall give you a simile. For by means of a simile some sensible people understand the meaning of what is said. Once upon a time, the inhabitants of a certain country emigrated. Then one friend said to another, \u2018Come, dear, let\u2019s go to that country. Hopefully we\u2019ll get some riches there!\u2019 \u2018Yes, dear,\u2019 the other replied. They went to that country, and to a certain deserted village. There they saw a pile of abandoned sunn hemp. Seeing it, one friend said to the other, \u2018This is a pile of abandoned sunn hemp. Well then, dear, you make up a load of hemp, and I\u2019ll make one too. Let\u2019s both take a load of hemp and go on.\u2019 \u2018Yes, dear,\u2019 he said. Carrying their loads of hemp they went to another deserted village. There they saw much sunn hemp thread abandoned. Seeing it, one friend said to the other, \u2018This pile of abandoned sunn hemp thread is just what we wanted the hemp for! Well then, dear, let\u2019s abandon our loads of hemp, and both take a load of hemp thread and go on.\u2019 \u2018I\u2019ve already carried this load of hemp a long way, and it\u2019s well tied up. It\u2019s good enough for me, you understand.\u2019 So one friend abandoned their load of hemp and picked up a load of hemp thread. They went to another deserted village. There they saw much sunn hemp cloth abandoned. Seeing it, one friend said to the other, \u2018This pile of abandoned sunn hemp cloth is just what we wanted the hemp and hemp thread for! Well then, dear, let\u2019s abandon our loads, and both take a load of hemp cloth and go on.\u2019 \u2018I\u2019ve already carried this load of hemp a long way, and it\u2019s well tied up. It\u2019s good enough for me, you understand.\u2019 So one friend abandoned their load of hemp thread and picked up a load of hemp cloth. They went to another deserted village. There they saw a pile of flax, and by turn, linen thread, linen cloth, cotton, cotton thread, cotton cloth, iron, copper, tin, lead, silver, and gold abandoned. Seeing it, one friend said to the other, \u2018This pile of gold is just what we wanted all those other things for! Well then, dear, let\u2019s abandon our loads, and both take a load of gold and go on.\u2019 \u2018I\u2019ve already carried this load of hemp a long way, and it\u2019s well tied up. It\u2019s good enough for me, you understand.\u2019 So one friend abandoned their load of silver and picked up a load of gold. Then they returned to their own village. When one friend returned with a load of sunn hemp, they didn\u2019t please their parents, their partners and children, or their friends and colleagues. And they got no pleasure and happiness on that account. But when the other friend returned with a load of gold, they pleased their parents, their partners and children, and their friends and colleagues. And they got much pleasure and happiness on that account. In the same way, chieftain, you seem like the hemp-carrier in the simile. Let go of this harmful misconception, chieftain, let go of it! Don\u2019t create lasting harm and suffering for yourself!\u201d 3. Going for Refuge \u201cI was delighted and satisfied with your very first simile, worthy Kassapa! Nevertheless, I wanted to hear your various solutions to the problem, so I thought I\u2019d oppose you in this way. Excellent, worthy Kassapa! Excellent! As if he were righting the overturned, or revealing the hidden, or pointing out the path to the lost, or lighting a lamp in the dark so people with clear eyes can see what\u2019s there, the worthy Kassapa has made the teaching clear in many ways. I go for refuge to the worthy Gotama, to the teaching, and to the mendicant Sa\u1e45gha. From this day forth, may the worthy Kassapa remember me as a lay follower who has gone for refuge for life. Worthy Kassapa, I wish to perform a great sacrifice. Please instruct me so it will be for my lasting welfare and happiness.\u201d 4. On Sacrifice \u201cChieftain, take the kind of sacrifice where cattle, goats and sheep, chickens and pigs, and various kinds of creatures are slaughtered. And the recipients have wrong view, wrong thought, wrong speech, wrong action, wrong livelihood, wrong effort, wrong mindfulness, and wrong immersion. That kind of sacrifice is not very fruitful or beneficial or brilliant or bountiful. Suppose a farmer was to enter a wood taking seed and plough. And on that barren field, that barren ground, with uncleared stumps he sowed seeds that were broken, spoiled, weather-damaged, infertile, and ill kept. And the heavens don\u2019t provide enough rain when needed. Would those seeds grow, increase, and mature, and would the farmer get abundant fruit?\u201d \u201cNo, worthy Kassapa.\u201d \u201cIn the same way, chieftain, take the kind of sacrifice where cattle, goats and sheep, chickens and pigs, and various kinds of creatures are slaughtered. And the recipients have wrong view, wrong thought, wrong speech, wrong action, wrong livelihood, wrong effort, wrong mindfulness, and wrong immersion. That kind of sacrifice is not very fruitful or beneficial or brilliant or bountiful. But take the kind of sacrifice where cattle, goats and sheep, chickens and pigs, and various kinds of creatures are not slaughtered. And the recipients have right view, right thought, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, and right immersion. That kind of sacrifice is very fruitful and beneficial and brilliant and bountiful. Suppose a farmer was to enter a wood taking seed and plough. And on that fertile field, that fertile ground, with well-cleared stumps he sowed seeds that were intact, unspoiled, not weather-damaged, fertile, and well kept. And the heavens provide plenty of rain when needed. Would those seeds grow, increase, and mature, and would the farmer get abundant fruit?\u201d \u201cYes, worthy Kassapa.\u201d \u201cIn the same way, chieftain, take the kind of sacrifice where cattle, goats and sheep, chickens and pigs, and various kinds of creatures are not slaughtered. And the recipients have right view, right thought, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, and right immersion. That kind of sacrifice is very fruitful and beneficial and brilliant and bountiful.\u201d 5. On the Student Uttara Then the chieftain P\u0101y\u0101si set up an offering for ascetics and brahmins, for paupers, vagrants, supplicants, and beggars. At that offering such food as sour gruel with false black pepper was given, and rough clothes with knotted fringes. Now, it was a student named Uttara who organized that offering. When the offering was over he referred to it like this, \u201cThrough this offering may I be together with the chieftain P\u0101y\u0101si in this world, but not in the next.\u201d P\u0101y\u0101si heard of this, so he summoned Uttara and said, \u201cIs it really true, dear Uttara, that you referred to the offering in this way?\u201d \u201cYes, worthy sir.\u201d \u201cBut why? Don\u2019t we who seek merit expect some result from the offering?\u201d \u201cAt your offering such food as sour gruel with false black pepper was given, which you wouldn\u2019t even want to touch with your foot, much less eat. And also rough clothes with knotted fringes, which you also wouldn\u2019t want to touch with your foot, much less wear. Worthy sir, you\u2019re dear and beloved to me. But how can I reconcile one so dear with something so disagreeable?\u201d \u201cWell then, dear Uttara, set up an offering with the same kind of food that I eat, and the same kind of clothes that I wear.\u201d \u201cYes, worthy sir,\u201d replied Uttara, and did so. So the chieftain P\u0101y\u0101si gave gifts carelessly, thoughtlessly, not with his own hands, giving the dregs. When his body broke up, after death, he was reborn in company with the gods of the four great kings, in an empty palace of sirisa wood. But the student Uttara who organized the offering gave gifts carefully, thoughtfully, with his own hands, not giving the dregs. When his body broke up, after death, he was reborn in company with the gods of the thirty-three. 6. The Godling P\u0101y\u0101si Now at that time Venerable Gavampati would often go to that empty sirisa palace for the day\u2019s meditation. Then the godling P\u0101y\u0101si went up to him, bowed, and stood to one side. Gavampati said to him, \u201cWho are you, reverend?\u201d \u201cSir, I am the chieftain P\u0101y\u0101si.\u201d \u201cDidn\u2019t you have the view that there is no afterlife, no beings are reborn spontaneously, and there\u2019s no fruit or result of good and bad deeds?\u201d \u201cIt\u2019s true, sir, I did have such a view. But Master Kassapa the Prince dissuaded me from that harmful misconception.\u201d \u201cBut the student named Uttara who organized that offering for you\u2014where has he been reborn?\u201d \u201cSir, Uttara gave gifts carefully, thoughtfully, with his own hands, not giving the dregs. When his body broke up, after death, he was reborn in company with the gods of the thirty-three. But I gave gifts carelessly, thoughtlessly, not with my own hands, giving the dregs. When my body broke up, after death, I was reborn in company with the gods of the four great kings, in an empty sirisa palace. So, sir, when you\u2019ve returned to the human realm, please announce this: \u2018Give gifts carefully, thoughtfully, with your own hands, not giving the dregs. The chieftain P\u0101y\u0101si gave gifts carelessly, thoughtlessly, not with his own hands, giving the dregs. When his body broke up, after death, he was reborn in company with the gods of the four great kings, in an empty palace of sirisa. But the student Uttara who organized the offering gave gifts carefully, thoughtfully, with his own hands, not giving the dregs. When his body broke up, after death, he was reborn in company with the gods of the thirty-three.\u2019\u201d So when Venerable Gavampati returned to the human realm he made that announcement.","title":"With P\u0101y\u0101si","tradition":"Digha Nikaya","translated_text":null,"word_count":7817}