{"collection":"Majjhima Nikaya","full_text_available":true,"graph_url":"https://unchartedknowledge.5gfusion.net/v2/api/page/suttacentral_mn102/graph","html_url":"https://unchartedknowledge.5gfusion.net/v2/page/suttacentral_mn102","id":"suttacentral_mn102","license":"CC0","rights_basis":"suttacentral_bilara_data_cc0","source":"suttacentral","source_url":"https://suttacentral.net/mn102/en/sujato","summary":null,"tags":["Early Buddhist Texts","Majjhima Nikaya"],"text":"So I have heard. At one time the Buddha was staying near S\u0101vatth\u012b in Jeta\u2019s Grove, An\u0101thapi\u1e47\u1e0dika\u2019s monastery. There the Buddha addressed the mendicants, \u201cMendicants!\u201d \u201cVenerable sir,\u201d they replied. The Buddha said this: \u201cMendicants, there are some ascetics and brahmins who speculate and theorize about the final end, and propose various hypotheses concerning the final end. Some propose this: \u2018The self is percipient and healthy after death.\u2019 Some propose this: \u2018The self is non-percipient and healthy after death.\u2019 Some propose this: \u2018The self is neither percipient nor non-percipient and healthy after death.\u2019 But some assert the annihilation, eradication, and nonexistence of an existing being, while others propose extinguishment in this life. Thus they assert an existent self that is healthy after death; or they assert the annihilation of an existing being; while some propose extinguishment in this life. In this way five become three, and three become five. This is the summary recital of the five and three. Now, the ascetics and brahmins who propose a self that is percipient and healthy after death describe it as formed, or formless, or both formed and formless, or neither formed nor formless. Or they propose a self of unified perception, or of diverse perception, or of limited perception, or of limitless perception. Or some among those who go beyond this propose universal consciousness, limitless and imperturbable. The Realized One understands this as follows. There are ascetics and brahmins who assert a self that is percipient and healthy after death, describing it as formed, or formless, or both formed and formless, or neither formed nor formless. Or they describe it as of unified perception, or of diverse perception, or of limited perception, or of limitless perception. Or some, aware that \u2018there is nothing at all\u2019, propose the dimension of nothingness, limitless and imperturbable. They declare that this is the purest, highest, best, and supreme of all those perceptions, whether of form or of formlessness or of unity or of diversity. \u2018That much is conditioned and crude. But there is the cessation of conditions\u2014<em>that</em> is real.\u2019 Understanding this and seeing the escape from it, the Realized One has gone beyond all that. Now, the ascetics and brahmins who assert a self that is non-percipient and healthy after death describe it as formed, or formless, or both formed and formless, or neither formed nor formless. So they reject those who assert a self that is percipient and healthy after death. Why is that? Because they believe that perception is a disease, a boil, a dart, and that the state of non-perception is peaceful and sublime. The Realized One understands this as follows. There are ascetics and brahmins who assert a self that is non-percipient and healthy after death, describing it as formed, or formless, or both formed and formless, or neither formed nor formless. But if any ascetic or brahmin should say this: \u2018Apart from form, feeling, perception, and choices, I will describe the coming and going of consciousness, its passing away and reappearing, its growth, increase, and maturity.\u2019 That is not possible. \u2018All that is conditioned and crude. But there is the cessation of conditions\u2014<em>that</em> is real.\u2019 Understanding this and seeing the escape from it, the Realized One has gone beyond all that. Now, the ascetics and brahmins who assert a self that is neither percipient nor non-percipient and healthy after death describe it as formed, or formless, or both formed and formless, or neither formed nor formless. So they reject those who assert a self that is percipient and healthy after death, as well as those who assert a self that is non-percipient and healthy after death. Why is that? Because they believe that perception is a disease, a boil, a dart; that non-perception is a stupor; and that the state of neither perception nor non-perception is peaceful and sublime. The Realized One understands this as follows. There are ascetics and brahmins who assert a self that is neither percipient nor non-percipient and healthy after death, describing it as formed, or formless, or both formed and formless, or neither formed nor formless. Some ascetics or brahmins assert the embracing of that dimension merely through the conditioned phenomena of what ought be seen, heard, thought, and known. But that is said to be a disastrous approach. For that dimension is said to be not attainable by means of conditioned phenomena, but only with a residue of conditioned phenomena. \u2018All that is conditioned and crude. But there is the cessation of conditions\u2014<em>that</em> is real.\u2019 Understanding this and seeing the escape from it, the Realized One has gone beyond all that. Now, the ascetics and brahmins who assert the annihilation, eradication, and nonexistence of an existing being reject those who assert a self that is healthy after death, whether percipient or non-percipient or neither percipient nor non-percipient. Why is that? Because they think: \u2018All of those ascetics and brahmins only propose their attachment to heading upstream: \u201cAfter death we shall be like this! After death we shall be like that!\u201d Suppose a trader was going to market, thinking: \u201cWith this, that shall be mine! This way, I shall get that!\u201d In the same way, those ascetics and brahmins seem to be like traders when they say: \u201cAfter death we shall be like this! After death we shall be like that!\u201d\u2019 The Realized One understands this as follows. The ascetics and brahmins who assert the annihilation, eradication, and nonexistence of an existing being; from fear and disgust with substantial reality, they just keep running and circling around substantial reality. Suppose a mutt on a leash was tethered to a strong post or pillar. It would just keeping running and circling around that post or pillar. In the same way, those ascetics and brahmins, from fear and disgust with substantial reality, just keep running and circling around substantial reality. \u2018All that is conditioned and crude. But there is the cessation of conditions\u2014<em>that</em> is real.\u2019 Understanding this and seeing the escape from it, the Realized One has gone beyond all that. Whatever ascetics and brahmins speculate and theorize about the final end, and propose various hypotheses concerning the final end, all of them propose one or other of these five topics. There are some ascetics and brahmins who speculate and theorize about the first beginning, and propose various hypotheses concerning the first beginning. They propose the following, each insisting that theirs is the only truth and that everything else is wrong. \u2018The self and the cosmos are eternal.\u2019 \u2018The self and the cosmos are not eternal.\u2019 \u2018The self and the cosmos are both eternal and not eternal.\u2019 \u2018The self and the cosmos are neither eternal nor not eternal.\u2019 \u2018The self and the cosmos are finite.\u2019 \u2018The self and the cosmos are infinite.\u2019 \u2018The self and the cosmos are both finite and infinite.\u2019 \u2018The self and the cosmos are neither finite nor infinite.\u2019 \u2018The self and the cosmos are unified in perception.\u2019 \u2018The self and the cosmos are diverse in perception.\u2019 \u2018The self and the cosmos have limited perception.\u2019 \u2018The self and the cosmos have limitless perception.\u2019 \u2018The self and the cosmos experience nothing but happiness.\u2019 \u2018The self and the cosmos experience absolute suffering.\u2019 \u2018The self and the cosmos experience both happiness and suffering.\u2019 \u2018The self and the cosmos experience neither happiness nor suffering.\u2019 Now, consider the ascetics and brahmins whose view is as follows. \u2018The self and the cosmos are eternal. This is the only truth, anything else is futile.\u2019 It\u2019s simply not possible for them to have personal knowledge of this that is pure and bright, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation. But in the absence of personal knowledge that is pure and bright, even the portion of knowledge they illuminate is said to be grasping on their part. \u2018All that is conditioned and crude. But there is the cessation of conditions\u2014<em>that</em> is real.\u2019 Understanding this and seeing the escape from it, the Realized One has gone beyond all that. Now, consider the ascetics and brahmins whose view is as follows. The self and the cosmos are not eternal, or both eternal and not eternal, or neither eternal nor not-eternal, or finite, or infinite, or both finite and infinite, or neither finite nor infinite, or of unified perception, or of diverse perception, or of limited perception, or of limitless perception, or experience nothing but happiness, or experience absolute suffering, or experience both happiness and suffering, or experience neither happiness nor suffering. It\u2019s simply not possible for them to have personal knowledge of this that is pure and bright, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation. But in the absence of personal knowledge that is pure and bright, even the portion of knowledge they illuminate is said to be grasping on their part. \u2018All that is conditioned and crude. But there is the cessation of conditions\u2014<em>that</em> is real.\u2019 Understanding this and seeing the escape from it, the Realized One has gone beyond all that. Now, some ascetics and brahmins, letting go of theories about the first beginning and the final end, not fixating on the fetters of sensuality, enter and remain in the rapture of seclusion: \u2018This is peaceful, this is sublime, that is, entering and remaining in the rapture of seclusion.\u2019 But that rapture of seclusion of theirs ceases. When the rapture of seclusion ceases, sadness arises; and when sadness ceases, the rapture of seclusion arises. It\u2019s like how the sunlight fills the space when the shadow leaves, or the shadow fills the space when the sunshine leaves. In the same way, when the rapture of seclusion ceases, sadness arises; and when sadness ceases, the rapture of seclusion arises. The Realized One understands this as follows. This good ascetic or brahmin, letting go of theories about the first beginning and the final end, not fixating on the fetters of sensuality, enters and remains in the rapture of seclusion: \u2018This is peaceful, this is sublime, that is, entering and remaining in the rapture of seclusion.\u2019 But that rapture of seclusion of theirs ceases. When the rapture of seclusion ceases, sadness arises; and when sadness ceases, the rapture of seclusion arises. \u2018All that is conditioned and crude. But there is the cessation of conditions\u2014<em>that</em> is real.\u2019 Understanding this and seeing the escape from it, the Realized One has gone beyond all that. Now, some ascetics and brahmins, letting go of theories about the first beginning and the final end, not fixating on the fetters of sensuality, going beyond the rapture of seclusion, enter and remain in pleasure not of the flesh. \u2018This is peaceful, this is sublime, that is, entering and remaining in pleasure not of the flesh.\u2019 But that pleasure not of the flesh of theirs ceases. When pleasure not of the flesh ceases, the rapture of seclusion arises; and when the rapture of seclusion ceases, pleasure not of the flesh arises. It\u2019s like how the sunlight fills the space when the shadow leaves, or the shadow fills the space when the sunshine leaves. \u2026 The Realized One understands this as follows. This good ascetic or brahmin, letting go of theories about the first beginning and the final end, not fixating on the fetters of sensuality, going beyond the rapture of seclusion, enters and remains in pleasure not of the flesh. \u2018This is peaceful, this is sublime, that is, entering and remaining in pleasure not of the flesh.\u2019 But that pleasure not of the flesh of theirs ceases. When pleasure not of the flesh ceases, the rapture of seclusion arises; and when the rapture of seclusion ceases, pleasure not of the flesh arises. \u2018All that is conditioned and crude. But there is the cessation of conditions\u2014<em>that</em> is real.\u2019 Understanding this and seeing the escape from it, the Realized One has gone beyond all that. Now, some ascetics and brahmins, letting go of theories about the first beginning and the final end, not fixating on the fetters of sensuality, going beyond the rapture of seclusion and pleasure not of the flesh, enter and remain in neutral feeling. \u2018This is peaceful, this is sublime, that is, entering and remaining in neutral feeling.\u2019 Then that neutral feeling ceases. When neutral feeling ceases, pleasure not of the flesh arises; and when pleasure not of the flesh ceases, neutral feeling arises. It\u2019s like how the sunlight fills the space when the shadow leaves, or the shadow fills the space when the sunshine leaves. \u2026 The Realized One understands this as follows. This good ascetic or brahmin, letting go of theories about the first beginning and the final end, not fixating on the fetters of sensuality, going beyond the rapture of seclusion and pleasure not of the flesh, enters and remains in neutral feeling. \u2018This is peaceful, this is sublime, that is, entering and remaining in neutral feeling.\u2019 Then that neutral feeling ceases. When neutral feeling ceases, pleasure not of the flesh arises; and when pleasure not of the flesh ceases, neutral feeling arises. \u2018All that is conditioned and crude. But there is the cessation of conditions\u2014<em>that</em> is real.\u2019 Understanding this and seeing the escape from it, the Realized One has gone beyond all that. Now, some ascetics and brahmins, letting go of theories about the first beginning and the final end, not fixating on the fetters of sensuality, go beyond the rapture of seclusion, pleasure not of the flesh, and neutral feeling. They regard themselves like this: \u2018I am at peace; I am quenched; I am free of grasping.\u2019 The Realized One understands this as follows. This good ascetic or brahmin, letting go of theories about the first beginning and the final end, not fixating on the fetters of sensuality, goes beyond the rapture of seclusion, pleasure not of the flesh, and neutral feeling. They regard themselves like this: \u2018I am at peace; I am quenched; I am free of grasping.\u2019 Clearly this venerable speaks of a practice that\u2019s conducive to extinguishment. Nevertheless, they still grasp at theories about the first beginning or the final end, or the fetters of sensuality, or the rapture of seclusion, or pleasure not of the flesh, or neutral feeling. And when they regard themselves like this: \u2018I am at peace; I am quenched; I am free of grasping,\u2019 that\u2019s also said to be grasping on their part. \u2018All that is conditioned and crude. But there is the cessation of conditions\u2014<em>that</em> is real.\u2019 Understanding this and seeing the escape from it, the Realized One has gone beyond all that. But the Realized One has awakened to the supreme state of sublime peace, that is, liberation by not grasping after truly understanding the six fields of contact\u2019s origin, disappearance, gratification, drawback, and escape.\u201d That is what the Buddha said. Satisfied, the mendicants approved what the Buddha said.","title":"The Five and Three","tradition":"Majjhima Nikaya","translated_text":null,"word_count":2468}