{"collection":"Majjhima Nikaya","full_text_available":true,"graph_url":"https://unchartedknowledge.5gfusion.net/v2/api/page/suttacentral_mn44/graph","html_url":"https://unchartedknowledge.5gfusion.net/v2/page/suttacentral_mn44","id":"suttacentral_mn44","license":"CC0","rights_basis":"suttacentral_bilara_data_cc0","source":"suttacentral","source_url":"https://suttacentral.net/mn44/en/sujato","summary":null,"tags":["Early Buddhist Texts","Majjhima Nikaya"],"text":"So I have heard. At one time the Buddha was staying near R\u0101jagaha in the Bamboo Grove, the squirrels\u2019 feeding ground. Then the layman Vis\u0101kha went to see the nun Dhammadinn\u0101, bowed, sat down to one side, and said to her: \u201cMa\u2019am, they speak of this thing called \u2018substantial reality\u2019. What is this substantial reality that the Buddha spoke of?\u201d \u201cVis\u0101kha, the Buddha said that these five grasping aggregates are substantial reality. That is, the grasping aggregates of form, feeling, perception, choices, and consciousness. The Buddha said that these five grasping aggregates are substantial reality.\u201d Saying \u201cGood, ma\u2019am,\u201d Vis\u0101kha approved and agreed with what Dhammadinn\u0101 said. Then he asked another question: \u201cMa\u2019am, they speak of this thing called \u2018the origin of substantial reality\u2019. What is the origin of substantial reality that the Buddha spoke of?\u201d \u201cIt\u2019s the craving that leads to future lives, mixed up with relishing and greed, taking pleasure there wherever it alights. That is, craving for sensual pleasures, craving for continued existence, and craving for nonexistence. The Buddha said that this is the origin of substantial reality.\u201d \u201cMa\u2019am, they speak of this thing called \u2018the cessation of substantial reality\u2019. What is the cessation of substantial reality that the Buddha spoke of?\u201d \u201cIt\u2019s the fading away and cessation of that very same craving with no residue left behind; giving it away, letting it go, releasing it, and not clinging to it. The Buddha said that this is the cessation of substantial reality.\u201d \u201cMa\u2019am, they speak of the practice that leads to the cessation of substantial reality. What is the practice that leads to the cessation of substantial reality that the Buddha spoke of?\u201d \u201cThe practice that leads to the cessation of substantial reality that the Buddha spoke of is simply this noble eightfold path, that is: right view, right purpose, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, and right immersion.\u201d \u201cBut ma\u2019am, is that grasping the exact same thing as the five grasping aggregates? Or is grasping one thing and the five grasping aggregates another?\u201d \u201cThat grasping is not the exact same thing as the five grasping aggregates. Nor is grasping one thing and the five grasping aggregates another. The desire and greed for the five grasping aggregates is the grasping there.\u201d \u201cBut ma\u2019am, how does substantialist view come about?\u201d \u201cIt\u2019s when an unlearned ordinary person has not seen the noble ones, and is neither skilled nor trained in the teaching of the noble ones. They\u2019ve not seen true persons, and are neither skilled nor trained in the teaching of the true persons. They regard form as self, self as having form, form in self, or self in form. They regard feeling \u2026 perception \u2026 choices \u2026 consciousness as self, self as having consciousness, consciousness in self, or self in consciousness. That\u2019s how substantialist view comes about.\u201d \u201cBut ma\u2019am, how does substantialist view not come about?\u201d \u201cIt\u2019s when a learned noble disciple has seen the noble ones, and is skilled and trained in the teaching of the noble ones. They\u2019ve seen true persons, and are skilled and trained in the teaching of the true persons. They don\u2019t regard form as self, self as having form, form in self, or self in form. They don\u2019t regard feeling \u2026 perception \u2026 choices \u2026 consciousness as self, self as having consciousness, consciousness in self, or self in consciousness. That\u2019s how substantialist view does not come about.\u201d \u201cBut ma\u2019am, what is the noble eightfold path?\u201d \u201cIt is simply this noble eightfold path, that is: right view, right purpose, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, and right immersion.\u201d \u201cBut ma\u2019am, is the noble eightfold path conditioned or unconditioned?\u201d \u201cThe noble eightfold path is conditioned.\u201d \u201cAre the three spectrums of practice included in the noble eightfold path? Or is the noble eightfold path included in the three spectrums of practice?\u201d \u201cThe three spectrums of practice are not included in the noble eightfold path. Rather, the noble eightfold path is included in the three spectrums of practice. Right speech, right action, and right livelihood: these things are included in the spectrum of ethics. Right effort, right mindfulness, and right immersion: these things are included in the spectrum of immersion. Right view and right purpose: these things are included in the spectrum of wisdom.\u201d \u201cBut ma\u2019am, what is immersion? What things are the bases of immersion? What things are the prerequisites for immersion? What is the development of immersion?\u201d \u201cUnification of the mind is immersion. The four kinds of mindfulness meditation are the bases for immersion. The four right efforts are the prerequisites for immersion. The cultivation, development, and making much of these very same things is the development of immersion.\u201d \u201cHow many processes are there?\u201d \u201cThere are these three processes. The physical process, the verbal process, and the mental process.\u201d \u201cBut ma\u2019am, what is the physical process? What\u2019s the verbal process? What\u2019s the mental process?\u201d \u201cBreathing is a physical process. Placing the mind and keeping it connected are a verbal process. Perception and feeling are a mental process.\u201d \u201cBut ma\u2019am, why is breathing a physical process? Why are placing the mind and keeping it connected a verbal process? Why are perception and feeling a mental process?\u201d \u201cBreathing is physical. It\u2019s tied up with the body, that\u2019s why breathing is a physical process. First you place the mind and keep it connected, then you break into speech. That\u2019s why placing the mind and keeping it connected are a verbal process. Perception and feeling are mental. They\u2019re tied up with the mind, that\u2019s why perception and feeling are a mental process.\u201d \u201cBut ma\u2019am, how does someone attain the cessation of perception and feeling?\u201d \u201cA mendicant who is entering such an attainment does not think: \u2018I will enter the cessation of perception and feeling\u2019 or \u2018I am entering the cessation of perception and feeling\u2019 or \u2018I have entered the cessation of perception and feeling.\u2019 Rather, their mind has been previously developed so as to lead to such a state.\u201d \u201cBut ma\u2019am, which process ceases first for a mendicant who is entering the cessation of perception and feeling: physical, verbal, or mental?\u201d \u201cThe verbal process ceases first, then physical, then mental.\u201d \u201cBut ma\u2019am, how does someone emerge from the cessation of perception and feeling?\u201d \u201cA mendicant who is emerging from such an attainment does not think: \u2018I will emerge from the cessation of perception and feeling\u2019 or \u2018I am emerging from the cessation of perception and feeling\u2019 or \u2018I have emerged from the cessation of perception and feeling.\u2019 Rather, their mind has been previously developed so as to lead to such a state.\u201d \u201cBut ma\u2019am, which process arises first for a mendicant who is emerging from the cessation of perception and feeling: physical, verbal, or mental?\u201d \u201cThe mental process arises first, then physical, then verbal.\u201d \u201cBut ma\u2019am, when a mendicant has emerged from the attainment of the cessation of perception and feeling, how many kinds of contact do they experience?\u201d \u201cThey experience three kinds of contact: emptiness, signless, and undirected contacts.\u201d \u201cBut ma\u2019am, when a mendicant has emerged from the attainment of the cessation of perception and feeling, what does their mind slant, slope, and incline to?\u201d \u201cTheir mind slants, slopes, and inclines to seclusion.\u201d \u201cBut ma\u2019am, how many feelings are there?\u201d \u201cThere are three feelings: pleasant, painful, and neutral feeling.\u201d \u201cWhat are these three feelings?\u201d \u201cAnything felt physically or mentally as pleasant or enjoyable. This is pleasant feeling. Anything felt physically or mentally as painful or unpleasant. This is painful feeling. Anything felt physically or mentally as neither pleasurable nor painful. This is neutral feeling.\u201d \u201cWhat is pleasant and what is painful regarding each of the three feelings?\u201d \u201cPleasant feeling is pleasant when it remains and painful when it perishes. Painful feeling is painful when it remains and pleasant when it perishes. Neutral feeling is pleasant in the presence of knowledge, and painful in the presence of ignorance.\u201d \u201cWhat underlying tendencies underlie each of the three feelings?\u201d \u201cThe underlying tendency for greed underlies pleasant feeling. The underlying tendency for aversion underlies painful feeling. The underlying tendency for ignorance underlies neutral feeling.\u201d \u201cDo these underlying tendencies always underlie these feelings?\u201d \u201cNo, they do not.\u201d \u201cWhat should be given up in regard to each of these three feelings?\u201d \u201cThe underlying tendency to greed should be given up when it comes to pleasant feeling. The underlying tendency to aversion should be given up when it comes to painful feeling. The underlying tendency to ignorance should be given up when it comes to neutral feeling.\u201d \u201cShould these underlying tendencies be given up regarding all instances of these feelings?\u201d \u201cNo, not in all instances. Take a mendicant who, quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskillful qualities, enters and remains in the first absorption, which has the rapture and bliss born of seclusion, while placing the mind and keeping it connected. With this they give up greed, and the underlying tendency to greed does not lie within that. And take a mendicant who reflects: \u2018Oh, when will I enter and remain in the same dimension that the noble ones enter and remain in today?\u2019 Nursing such a longing for the supreme liberations gives rise to sadness due to longing. With this they give up aversion, and the underlying tendency to aversion does not lie within that. Take a mendicant who, with the giving up of pleasure and pain and the disappearance of former happiness and sadness, enters and remains in the fourth absorption, without pleasure or pain, with pure equanimity and mindfulness. With this they give up ignorance, and the underlying tendency to ignorance does not lie within that.\u201d \u201cBut ma\u2019am, what is the counterpart of pleasant feeling?\u201d \u201cPainful feeling.\u201d \u201cWhat is the counterpart of painful feeling?\u201d \u201cPleasant feeling.\u201d \u201cWhat is the counterpart of neutral feeling?\u201d \u201cIgnorance.\u201d \u201cWhat is the counterpart of ignorance?\u201d \u201cKnowledge.\u201d \u201cWhat is the counterpart of knowledge?\u201d \u201cFreedom.\u201d \u201cWhat is the counterpart of freedom?\u201d \u201cExtinguishment.\u201d \u201cWhat is the counterpart of extinguishment?\u201d \u201cYour question goes too far, Vis\u0101kha. You weren\u2019t able to grasp the limit of questioning. For extinguishment is the objective, destination, and culmination of the spiritual life. If you wish, go to the Buddha and ask him this question. You should remember it in line with his answer.\u201d And then the layman Vis\u0101kha approved and agreed with what the nun Dhammadinn\u0101 said. He rose from his seat, bowed, and respectfully circled her, keeping her on his right. Then he went up to the Buddha, bowed, sat down to one side, and informed the Buddha of all they had discussed. When he had spoken, the Buddha said to him, \u201cThe nun Dhammadinn\u0101 is astute, Vis\u0101kha, she has great wisdom. If you came to me and asked this question, I would answer it in exactly the same way as the nun Dhammadinn\u0101. That is what it means, and that\u2019s how you should remember it.\u201d That is what the Buddha said. Satisfied, the layman Vis\u0101kha approved what the Buddha said.","title":"The Shorter Elaboration","tradition":"Majjhima Nikaya","translated_text":null,"word_count":1825}