{"collection":"Majjhima Nikaya","full_text_available":true,"graph_url":"https://unchartedknowledge.5gfusion.net/v2/api/page/suttacentral_mn63/graph","html_url":"https://unchartedknowledge.5gfusion.net/v2/page/suttacentral_mn63","id":"suttacentral_mn63","license":"CC0","rights_basis":"suttacentral_bilara_data_cc0","source":"suttacentral","source_url":"https://suttacentral.net/mn63/en/sujato","summary":null,"tags":["Early Buddhist Texts","Majjhima Nikaya"],"text":"So I have heard. At one time the Buddha was staying near S\u0101vatth\u012b in Jeta\u2019s Grove, An\u0101thapi\u1e47\u1e0dika\u2019s monastery. Then as Venerable M\u0101lu\u1e45kyaputta was in private retreat this thought came to his mind: \u201cThere are several convictions that the Buddha has left undeclared; he has set them aside and turned them down. For example: the cosmos is eternal, or not eternal, or finite, or infinite; the soul and the body are one and the same, or the soul is one thing, the body another; after death, a realized one still exists, or no longer exists, or both still exists and no longer exists, or neither still exists nor no longer exists. The Buddha does not explain these points to me. I don\u2019t endorse that, and do not accept it. I\u2019ll go to him and ask him about this. If he gives me a straight answer on any of these points, I will lead the spiritual life under him. If he does not explain these points to me, I shall resign the training and return to a lesser life.\u201d Then in the late afternoon, M\u0101lu\u1e45kyaputta came out of retreat and went to the Buddha. He bowed, sat down to one side, and told the Buddha of his thoughts. He then continued: \u201cIf the Buddha knows that the cosmos is eternal, please tell me. If you know that the cosmos is not eternal, tell me. If you don\u2019t know whether the cosmos is eternal or not, then it is straightforward to simply say: \u2018I neither know nor see.\u2019 If you know that the cosmos is finite, or infinite; that the soul and the body are one and the same, or is the soul one thing, the body another; that after death, a realized one still exists, or no longer exists, or both still exists and no longer exists, or neither still exists nor no longer exists, please tell me. If you don\u2019t know any of these things, then it is straightforward to simply say: \u2018I neither know nor see.\u2019\u201d \u201cWhat, M\u0101lu\u1e45kyaputta, did I ever say to you: \u2018Come, M\u0101lu\u1e45kyaputta, lead the spiritual life under me, and I will declare these things to you\u2019?\u201d \u201cNo, sir.\u201d \u201cOr did you ever say to me: \u2018Sir, I will lead the spiritual life under the Buddha, and the Buddha will declare these things to me\u2019?\u201d \u201cNo, sir.\u201d \u201cSo it seems that I did not say to you: \u2018Come, M\u0101lu\u1e45kyaputta, lead the spiritual life under me, and I will declare these things to you.\u2019 And you never said to me: \u2018Sir, I will lead the spiritual life under the Buddha, and the Buddha will declare these things to me.\u2019 In that case, you futile man, who are you and what do you disavow? Suppose someone were to say this: \u2018I will not lead the spiritual life under the Buddha until the Buddha declares to me that the cosmos is eternal, or that the cosmos is not eternal \u2026 or that after death a realized one neither still exists nor no longer exists.\u2019 That would still remain undeclared by the Realized One, and meanwhile that individual would die. Suppose a man was struck by an arrow thickly smeared with poison. His friends and colleagues, relatives and kin would get a surgeon to treat him. But the man would say: \u2018I won\u2019t extract this arrow as long as I don\u2019t know whether the man who wounded me was an aristocrat, a brahmin, a peasant, or a menial.\u2019 He\u2019d say: \u2018I won\u2019t extract this arrow as long as I don\u2019t know the following things about the man who wounded me: his name and clan; whether he\u2019s tall, short, or medium; whether his skin is black, brown, or dingy; and whether he comes from such-and-such village, town, or city. I won\u2019t extract this arrow as long as I don\u2019t know whether the bow that wounded me was straight or recurved; whether the bow-string is made of swallow-wort fibre, sunn hemp fibre, sinew, sanseveria fibre, or spurge fibre; whether the shaft is made from a bush or a plantation tree; whether the shaft was fitted with feathers from a vulture, a heron, a hawk, a peacock, or a stork; whether the shaft was bound with sinews of a cow, a buffalo, a black lion, or an ape; and whether the arrowhead was spiked, razor-tipped, barbed, made of iron or a calf\u2019s tooth, or lancet-shaped.\u2019 That man would still not have learned these things, and meanwhile they\u2019d die. In the same way, suppose someone was to say: \u2018I will not lead the spiritual life under the Buddha until the Buddha declares to me that the cosmos is eternal, or that the cosmos is not eternal \u2026 or that after death a realized one neither still exists nor no longer exists.\u2019 That would still remain undeclared by the Realized One, and meanwhile that individual would die. It\u2019s not true that if there were the view \u2018the cosmos is eternal\u2019 there would be the living of the spiritual life. It\u2019s not true that if there were the view \u2018the cosmos is not eternal\u2019 there would be the living of the spiritual life. When there is the view that the cosmos is eternal or that the cosmos is not eternal, there is rebirth, there is old age, there is death, and there is sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress. And it is the defeat of these things in this very life that I advocate. It\u2019s not true that if there were the view \u2018the cosmos is finite\u2019 \u2026 \u2018the cosmos is infinite\u2019 \u2026 \u2018the soul and the body are one and the same\u2019 \u2026 \u2018the soul is one thing, the body another\u2019 \u2026 \u2018a realized one still exists after death\u2019 \u2026 \u2018a realized one no longer exists after death\u2019 \u2026 \u2018a realized one both still exists and no longer exists after death\u2019 \u2026 \u2018a realized one neither still exists nor no longer exists after death\u2019 there would be the living of the spiritual life. When there are any of these views there is rebirth, there is old age, there is death, and there is sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress. And it is the defeat of these things in this very life that I advocate. So, M\u0101lu\u1e45kyaputta, you should remember what I have not declared as undeclared, and what I have declared as declared. And what have I not declared? I have not declared the following: \u2018the cosmos is eternal,\u2019 \u2018the cosmos is not eternal,\u2019 \u2018the cosmos is finite,\u2019 \u2018the world is infinite,\u2019 \u2018the soul and the body are one and the same,\u2019 \u2018the soul is one thing, the body another,\u2019 \u2018a realized one still exists after death,\u2019 \u2018a realized one no longer exists after death,\u2019 \u2018a realized one both still exists and no longer exists after death,\u2019 \u2018a realized one neither still exists nor no longer exists after death.\u2019 And why haven\u2019t I declared these things? Because they aren\u2019t beneficial or relevant to the fundamentals of the spiritual life. They don\u2019t lead to disillusionment, dispassion, cessation, peace, insight, awakening, and extinguishment. That\u2019s why I haven\u2019t declared them. And what have I declared? I have declared the following: \u2018this is suffering,\u2019 \u2018this is the origin of suffering,\u2019 \u2018this is the cessation of suffering,\u2019 \u2018this is the practice that leads to the cessation of suffering.\u2019 And why have I declared these things? Because they are beneficial and relevant to the fundamentals of the spiritual life. They lead to disillusionment, dispassion, cessation, peace, insight, awakening, and extinguishment. That\u2019s why I have declared them. So, M\u0101lu\u1e45kyaputta, you should remember what I have not declared as undeclared, and what I have declared as declared.\u201d That is what the Buddha said. Satisfied, Venerable M\u0101lu\u1e45kyaputta approved what the Buddha said.","title":"The Shorter Discourse With M\u0101lu\u1e45kyaputta","tradition":"Majjhima Nikaya","translated_text":null,"word_count":1287}