{"collection":"Majjhima Nikaya","full_text_available":true,"graph_url":"https://unchartedknowledge.5gfusion.net/v2/api/page/suttacentral_mn72/graph","html_url":"https://unchartedknowledge.5gfusion.net/v2/page/suttacentral_mn72","id":"suttacentral_mn72","license":"CC0","rights_basis":"suttacentral_bilara_data_cc0","source":"suttacentral","source_url":"https://suttacentral.net/mn72/en/sujato","summary":null,"tags":["Early Buddhist Texts","Majjhima Nikaya"],"text":"So I have heard. At one time the Buddha was staying near S\u0101vatth\u012b in Jeta\u2019s Grove, An\u0101thapi\u1e47\u1e0dika\u2019s monastery. Then the wanderer Vacchagotta went up to the Buddha and exchanged greetings with him. When the greetings and polite conversation were over, he sat down to one side and said to the Buddha: \u201cWorthy Gotama, is this your view: \u2018The cosmos is eternal. This is the only truth, anything else is futile\u2019?\u201d \u201cThat\u2019s not my view, Vaccha.\u201d \u201cThen is this your view: \u2018The cosmos is not eternal. This is the only truth, anything else is futile\u2019?\u201d \u201cThat\u2019s not my view, Vaccha.\u201d \u201cThen is this your view: \u2018The cosmos is finite. This is the only truth, anything else is futile\u2019?\u201d \u201cThat\u2019s not my view, Vaccha.\u201d \u201cThen is this your view: \u2018The cosmos is infinite. This is the only truth, anything else is futile\u2019?\u201d \u201cThat\u2019s not my view, Vaccha.\u201d \u201cThen is this your view: \u2018The soul and the body are one and the same. This is the only truth, anything else is futile\u2019?\u201d \u201cThat\u2019s not my view, Vaccha.\u201d \u201cThen is this your view: \u2018The soul is one thing, the body another. This is the only truth, anything else is futile\u2019?\u201d \u201cThat\u2019s not my view, Vaccha.\u201d \u201cThen is this your view: \u2018A realized one still exists after death. This is the only truth, anything else is futile\u2019?\u201d \u201cThat\u2019s not my view, Vaccha.\u201d \u201cThen is this your view: \u2018A realized one no longer exists after death. This is the only truth, anything else is futile\u2019?\u201d \u201cThat\u2019s not my view, Vaccha.\u201d \u201cThen is this your view: \u2018A realized one both still exists and no longer exists after death. This is the only truth, anything else is futile\u2019?\u201d \u201cThat\u2019s not my view, Vaccha.\u201d \u201cThen is this your view: \u2018A realized one neither still exists nor no longer exists after death. This is the only truth, anything else is futile\u2019?\u201d \u201cThat\u2019s not my view, Vaccha.\u201d \u201cWorthy Gotama, when asked these ten questions, you say: \u2018That\u2019s not my view.\u2019 Seeing what drawback do you avoid all these convictions?\u201d \u201cEach of these ten convictions is the thicket of views, the desert of views, the twist of views, the dodge of views, the fetter of views. They\u2019re beset with suffering, distress, anguish, and fever. They don\u2019t lead to disillusionment, dispassion, cessation, peace, insight, awakening, and extinguishment. Seeing this drawback I avoid all these convictions.\u201d \u201cBut does the worthy Gotama have any convictions at all?\u201d \u201cA realized one has done away with convictions. For a realized one has seen: \u2018Such is form, such is the origin of form, such is the disappearance of form. Such is feeling, such is the origin of feeling, such is the disappearance of feeling. Such is perception, such is the origin of perception, such is the disappearance of perception. Such are choices, such is the origin of choices, such is the disappearance of choices. Such is consciousness, such is the origin of consciousness, such is the disappearance of consciousness.\u2019 That\u2019s why a Realized One is freed by not grasping with the ending, fading away, cessation, giving up, and letting go of all conceiving, all churning, and all I-making, mine-making, or underlying tendency to conceit, I say.\u201d \u201cBut worthy Gotama, when a mendicant\u2019s mind is freed like this, where are they reborn?\u201d \u201c\u2018They\u2019re reborn\u2019 doesn\u2019t apply, Vaccha.\u201d \u201cWell then, are they not reborn?\u201d \u201c\u2018They\u2019re not reborn\u2019 doesn\u2019t apply, Vaccha.\u201d \u201cWell then, are they both reborn and not reborn?\u201d \u201c\u2018They\u2019re both reborn and not reborn\u2019 doesn\u2019t apply, Vaccha.\u201d \u201cWell then, are they neither reborn nor not reborn?\u201d \u201c\u2018They\u2019re neither reborn nor not reborn\u2019 doesn\u2019t apply, Vaccha.\u201d \u201cWorthy Gotama, when asked all these questions, you say: \u2018It doesn\u2019t apply.\u2019 I fail to understand this point, worthy Gotama; I\u2019ve fallen into confusion. And I\u2019ve now lost even the degree of clarity I had from previous discussions with the worthy Gotama.\u201d \u201cNo wonder you don\u2019t understand, Vaccha, no wonder you\u2019re confused. For this principle is deep, hard to see, hard to understand, peaceful, sublime, beyond the scope of logic, subtle, comprehensible to the astute. It\u2019s hard for you to understand, since you have a different view, creed, and belief, and another discipline and denomination. Well then, Vaccha, I\u2019ll ask you about this in return, and you can answer as you like. What do you think, Vaccha? Suppose a fire was burning in front of you. Would you know: \u2018This fire is burning in front of me\u2019?\u201d \u201cYes, I would, worthy Gotama.\u201d \u201cBut Vaccha, suppose they were to ask you: \u2018This fire burning in front of you: what does it depend on to burn?\u2019 How would you answer?\u201d \u201cI would answer like this: \u2018This fire burning in front of me burns in dependence on grass and logs as fuel.\u2019\u201d \u201cSuppose that fire burning in front of you was extinguished. Would you know: \u2018This fire in front of me is quenched\u2019?\u201d \u201cYes, I would, worthy Gotama.\u201d \u201cBut Vaccha, suppose they were to ask you: \u2018This fire in front of you that is quenched: in what direction did it go\u2014 east, south, west, or north?\u2019 How would you answer?\u201d \u201cIt doesn\u2019t apply, worthy Gotama. The fire depended on grass and logs as fuel. When that runs out, and no more fuel is added, the fire is reckoned to have become quenched due to lack of fuel.\u201d \u201cIn the same way, Vaccha, any form by which a realized one might be described has been given up, cut off at the root, made like a palm stump, obliterated, and unable to arise in the future. A realized one is freed from reckoning in terms of form. They\u2019re deep, immeasurable, and hard to fathom, like the ocean. \u2018They\u2019re reborn\u2019, \u2018they\u2019re not reborn\u2019, \u2018they\u2019re both reborn and not reborn\u2019, \u2018they\u2019re neither reborn nor not reborn\u2019\u2014none of these apply. Any feeling \u2026 perception \u2026 choices \u2026 consciousness by which a realized one might be described has been given up, cut off at the root, made like a palm stump, obliterated, and unable to arise in the future. A realized one is freed from reckoning in terms of consciousness. They\u2019re deep, immeasurable, and hard to fathom, like the ocean. \u2018They\u2019re reborn\u2019, \u2018they\u2019re not reborn\u2019, \u2018they\u2019re both reborn and not reborn\u2019, \u2018they\u2019re neither reborn nor not reborn\u2019\u2014none of these apply.\u201d When he said this, the wanderer Vacchagotta said to the Buddha: \u201cWorthy Gotama, suppose there was a large sal tree not far from a town or village. And because it\u2019s impermanent, its branches and foliage, bark and shoots, and softwood would fall off. After some time it would be rid of branches and foliage, bark and shoots, and softwood, pure, and consolidated in the core. In the same way, worthy Gotama\u2019s dispensation is rid of branches and foliage, bark and shoots, and softwood, pure, and consolidated in the core. Excellent, worthy Gotama! \u2026 From this day forth, may the worthy Gotama remember me as a lay follower who has gone for refuge for life.\u201d","title":"With Vacchagotta on Fire","tradition":"Majjhima Nikaya","translated_text":null,"word_count":1151}