{"collection":"Majjhima Nikaya","full_text_available":true,"graph_url":"https://unchartedknowledge.5gfusion.net/v2/api/page/suttacentral_mn84/graph","html_url":"https://unchartedknowledge.5gfusion.net/v2/page/suttacentral_mn84","id":"suttacentral_mn84","license":"CC0","rights_basis":"suttacentral_bilara_data_cc0","source":"suttacentral","source_url":"https://suttacentral.net/mn84/en/sujato","summary":null,"tags":["Early Buddhist Texts","Majjhima Nikaya"],"text":"So I have heard. At one time Venerable Mah\u0101kacc\u0101na was staying near Madhur\u0101 in the Nut Grass Grove. King Avantiputta of Madhur\u0101 heard, \u201cIt seems the ascetic Kacc\u0101na is staying near Madhur\u0101 in the Nut Grass Grove. He has this good reputation: \u2018He is astute, competent, intelligent, learned, a brilliant speaker, eloquent, mature, a perfected one.\u2019 It\u2019s good to see such perfected ones.\u201d And then King Avantiputta had the finest carriages harnessed. He mounted a fine carriage and, along with other fine carriages, set out in full royal pomp from Madhur\u0101 to see Mah\u0101kacc\u0101na. He went by carriage as far as the terrain allowed, then descended and approached Mah\u0101kacc\u0101na on foot. They exchanged greetings, and when the greetings and polite conversation were over, the king sat down to one side and said to Mah\u0101kacc\u0101na: \u201cWorthy Kacc\u0101na, the brahmins say: \u2018Only brahmins are the best class; other classes are inferior. Only brahmins are the light class; other classes are dark. Only brahmins are purified, not others. Only brahmins are the the Divinity\u2019s bosom sons, born from his mouth, born of the Divinity, created by the Divinity, heirs of the Divinity.\u2019 What does the worthy Kacc\u0101na have to say about this?\u201d \u201cGreat king, that\u2019s just hearsay in the world. And here\u2019s a way to understand that it\u2019s just hearsay in the world. What do you think, Great King? Suppose an aristocrat prospers in money, grain, silver, or gold. Wouldn\u2019t there be aristocrats, brahmins, peasants, and menials who would get up before him and go to bed after him, and be obliging, behaving nicely and speaking politely?\u201d \u201cThere would, worthy Kacc\u0101na.\u201d \u201cWhat do you think, Great King? Suppose a brahmin \u2026 a peasant \u2026 a menial prospers in money, grain, silver, or gold. Wouldn\u2019t there be menials, aristocrats, brahmins, and peasants who would get up before him and go to bed after him, and be obliging, behaving nicely and speaking politely?\u201d \u201cThere would, worthy Kacc\u0101na.\u201d \u201cWhat do you think, Great King? If this is so, are the four classes equal or not? Or how do you see this?\u201d \u201cCertainly, worthy Kacc\u0101na, in this case these four classes are equal. I can\u2019t see any difference between them.\u201d \u201cAnd here\u2019s another way to understand that the claims of the brahmins are just hearsay in the world. What do you think, Great King? Take an aristocrat who kills living creatures, steals, and commits sexual misconduct; uses speech that\u2019s false, backbiting, harsh, or nonsensical; and is covetous, malicious, and has wrong view. When their body breaks up, after death, would they be reborn in a place of loss, a bad place, the underworld, hell, or not? Or how do you see this?\u201d \u201cSuch an aristocrat would be reborn in a bad place. That\u2019s what I think, but I\u2019ve also heard it from the perfected ones.\u201d \u201cGood, good, Great King! It\u2019s good that you think so, and it\u2019s good that you\u2019ve heard it from the perfected ones. What do you think, Great King? Take a brahmin \u2026 a peasant \u2026 a menial who kills living creatures, steals, and commits sexual misconduct; uses speech that\u2019s false, backbiting, harsh, or nonsensical; and is covetous, malicious, and has wrong view. When their body breaks up, after death, would they be reborn in a place of loss, a bad place, the underworld, hell, or not? Or how do you see this?\u201d \u201cSuch a brahmin, peasant, or menial would be reborn in a bad place. That\u2019s what I think, but I\u2019ve also heard it from the perfected ones.\u201d \u201cGood, good, Great King! It\u2019s good that you think so, and it\u2019s good that you\u2019ve heard it from the perfected ones. What do you think, Great King? If this is so, are the four classes equal or not? Or how do you see this?\u201d \u201cCertainly, worthy Kacc\u0101na, in this case these four classes are equal. I can\u2019t see any difference between them.\u201d \u201cAnd here\u2019s another way to understand that the claims of the brahmins are just hearsay in the world. What do you think, Great King? Take an aristocrat who doesn\u2019t kill living creatures, steal, or commit sexual misconduct. They don\u2019t use speech that\u2019s false, backbiting, harsh, or nonsensical. And they\u2019re contented, kind-hearted, with right view. When their body breaks up, after death, would they be reborn in a good place, a heavenly realm, or not? Or how do you see this?\u201d \u201cSuch an aristocrat would be reborn in a good place. That\u2019s what I think, but I\u2019ve also heard it from the perfected ones.\u201d \u201cGood, good, Great King! It\u2019s good that you think so, and it\u2019s good that you\u2019ve heard it from the perfected ones. What do you think, Great King? Take a brahmin, peasant, or menial who doesn\u2019t kill living creatures, steal, or commit sexual misconduct. They don\u2019t use speech that\u2019s false, backbiting, harsh, or nonsensical. And they\u2019re contented, kind-hearted, with right view. When their body breaks up, after death, would they be reborn in a good place, a heavenly realm, or not? Or how do you see this?\u201d \u201cSuch a brahmin, peasant, or menial would be reborn in a good place. That\u2019s what I think, but I\u2019ve also heard it from the perfected ones.\u201d \u201cGood, good, Great King! It\u2019s good that you think so, and it\u2019s good that you\u2019ve heard it from the perfected ones. What do you think, Great King? If this is so, are the four classes equal or not? Or how do you see this?\u201d \u201cCertainly, worthy Kacc\u0101na, in this case these four classes are equal. I can\u2019t see any difference between them.\u201d \u201cAnd here\u2019s another way to understand that the claims of the brahmins are just hearsay in the world. What do you think, Great King? Take an aristocrat who breaks into houses, plunders wealth, steals from isolated buildings, commits highway robbery, and commits adultery. Suppose your men arrest him and present him to you, saying: \u2018Your Majesty, this man is a bandit, a criminal. Punish him as you will.\u2019 What would you do to him?\u201d \u201cI would have him executed, fined, or banished, or dealt with as befits the crime. Why is that? Because he\u2019s lost his former status as an aristocrat, and is just reckoned as a bandit.\u201d \u201cWhat do you think, Great King? Take a brahmin, peasant, or menial who breaks into houses, plunders wealth, steals from isolated buildings, commits highway robbery, and commits adultery. Suppose your men arrest him and present him to you, saying: \u2018Your Majesty, this man is a bandit, a criminal. Punish him as you will.\u2019 What would you do to him?\u201d \u201cI would have him executed, fined, or banished, or dealt with as befits the crime. Why is that? Because he\u2019s lost his former status as a brahmin, peasant, or menial, and is just reckoned as a bandit.\u201d \u201cWhat do you think, Great King? If this is so, are the four classes equal or not? Or how do you see this?\u201d \u201cCertainly, worthy Kacc\u0101na, in this case these four classes are equal. I can\u2019t see any difference between them.\u201d \u201cAnd here\u2019s another way to understand that the claims of the brahmins are just hearsay in the world. What do you think, Great King? Take an aristocrat who shaves off their hair and beard, dresses in ocher robes, and goes forth from the lay life to homelessness. They abstain from killing living creatures, stealing, and lying. They abstain from eating at night, eat in one part of the day, and are chaste, ethical, and of good character. How would you treat them?\u201d \u201cI would bow to them, rise in their presence, or offer them a seat. I\u2019d invite them to accept robes, almsfood, lodgings, and medicines and supplies for the sick. And I\u2019d organize their lawful guarding and protection. Why is that? Because they\u2019ve lost their former status as an aristocrat, and are just reckoned as an ascetic.\u201d \u201cWhat do you think, Great King? Take a brahmin, peasant, or menial who shaves off their hair and beard, dresses in ocher robes, and goes forth from the lay life to homelessness. They abstain from killing living creatures, stealing, and lying. They abstain from eating at night, eat in one part of the day, and are chaste, ethical, and of good character. How would you treat them?\u201d \u201cI would bow to them, rise in their presence, or offer them a seat. I\u2019d invite them to accept robes, almsfood, lodgings, and medicines and supplies for the sick. And I\u2019d organize their lawful guarding and protection. Why is that? Because they\u2019ve lost their former status as a brahmin, peasant, or menial, and are just reckoned as an ascetic.\u201d \u201cWhat do you think, Great King? If this is so, are the four classes equal or not? Or how do you see this?\u201d \u201cCertainly, worthy Kacc\u0101na, in this case these four classes are equal. I can\u2019t see any difference between them.\u201d \u201cThis is another way to understand that this is just hearsay in the world: \u2018Only brahmins are the best class; other classes are inferior. Only brahmins are the light class; other classes are dark. Only brahmins are purified, not others. Only brahmins are the Divinity\u2019s bosom sons, born from his mouth, born of the Divinity, created by the Divinity, heirs of the Divinity.\u2019\u201d When he had spoken, King Avantiputta of Madhur\u0101 said to Mah\u0101kacc\u0101na, \u201cExcellent, worthy Kacc\u0101na! Excellent! As if he were righting the overturned, or revealing the hidden, or pointing out the path to the lost, or lighting a lamp in the dark so people with clear eyes can see what\u2019s there, the worthy Kacc\u0101na has made the teaching clear in many ways. I go for refuge to the worthy Kacc\u0101na, to the teaching, and to the mendicant Sa\u1e45gha. From this day forth, may the worthy Kacc\u0101na remember me as a lay follower who has gone for refuge for life.\u201d \u201cGreat king, don\u2019t go for refuge to me. You should go for refuge to that same Blessed One to whom I have gone for refuge.\u201d \u201cBut where is that Blessed One at present, the perfected one, the fully awakened Buddha?\u201d \u201cGreat king, the Buddha has already become fully quenched.\u201d \u201cWorthy Kacc\u0101na, if I heard that the Buddha was within ten leagues, or twenty, or even up to a hundred leagues away, I\u2019d go a hundred leagues to see him. But since the Buddha has become fully quenched, I go for refuge to that fully quenched Buddha, to the teaching, and to the mendicant Sa\u1e45gha. From this day forth, may the worthy Kacc\u0101na remember me as a lay follower who has gone for refuge for life.\u201d","title":"At Madhur\u0101","tradition":"Majjhima Nikaya","translated_text":null,"word_count":1760}