{"collection":"Samyutta Nikaya","full_text_available":true,"graph_url":"https://unchartedknowledge.5gfusion.net/v2/api/page/suttacentral_sn12.25/graph","html_url":"https://unchartedknowledge.5gfusion.net/v2/page/suttacentral_sn12.25","id":"suttacentral_sn12.25","license":"CC0","rights_basis":"suttacentral_bilara_data_cc0","source":"suttacentral","source_url":"https://suttacentral.net/sn12.25/en/sujato","summary":null,"tags":["Early Buddhist Texts","Samyutta Nikaya"],"text":"At S\u0101vatth\u012b. Then in the late afternoon, Venerable Bh\u016bmija came out of retreat, went to Venerable S\u0101riputta, and exchanged greetings with him. When the greetings and polite conversation were over, he sat down to one side and said to him: \u201cReverend S\u0101riputta, there are ascetics and brahmins who teach the efficacy of deeds. Some of them assert that pleasure and pain are made by oneself. Some of them assert that pleasure and pain are made by another. Some of them assert that pleasure and pain are made by both oneself and another. Some of them assert that pleasure and pain arise anomalously, not made by oneself or another. What does the Buddha say about this? How does he explain it? How should we answer so as to repeat what the Buddha has said, and not misrepresent him with an untruth? How should we explain in line with his teaching, with no legitimate grounds for rebuttal and criticism?\u201d \u201cReverend, the Buddha has said that pleasure and pain are dependently originated. Dependent on what? Dependent on contact. In speaking like this, you would repeat what the Buddha has said, and not misrepresent him with an untruth. You would explain in line with his teaching, and there would be no legitimate grounds for rebuttal and criticism. Consider the ascetics and brahmins who teach the efficacy of deeds. In the case of those who assert that pleasure and pain are made by oneself, that\u2019s dependent on contact. \u2026 In the case of those who assert that pleasure and pain arise anomalously, not made by oneself or another, that\u2019s also dependent on contact. Consider the ascetics and brahmins who teach the efficacy of deeds. In the case of those who assert that pleasure and pain are made by oneself, it\u2019s impossible that they will experience that without contact. \u2026 In the case of those who assert that pleasure and pain arise anomalously, not made by oneself or another, it\u2019s impossible that they will experience that without contact.\u201d Venerable \u0100nanda heard this discussion between Venerable S\u0101riputta and Venerable Bh\u016bmija. Then Venerable \u0100nanda went up to the Buddha, bowed, sat down to one side, and informed the Buddha of all they had discussed. \u201cGood, good, \u0100nanda! It\u2019s just as S\u0101riputta has so rightly explained. I have said that pleasure and pain are dependently originated. Dependent on what? Dependent on contact. In speaking like this, you would repeat what I have said, and not misrepresent me with an untruth. You would explain in line with my teaching, and there would be no legitimate grounds for rebuttal and criticism. Consider the ascetics and brahmins who teach the efficacy of deeds. In the case of those who assert that pleasure and pain are made by oneself, that\u2019s dependent on contact. \u2026 In the case of those who assert that pleasure and pain arise anomalously, not made by oneself or another, that\u2019s also dependent on contact. Consider the ascetics and brahmins who teach the efficacy of deeds. In the case of those who assert that pleasure and pain are made by oneself, it\u2019s impossible that they will experience that without contact. \u2026 In the case of those who assert that pleasure and pain arise anomalously, not made by oneself or another, it\u2019s impossible that they will experience that without contact. \u0100nanda, as long as there\u2019s a body, the intention that gives rise to bodily action causes pleasure and pain to arise in oneself. As long as there\u2019s a voice, the intention that gives rise to verbal action causes pleasure and pain to arise in oneself. As long as there\u2019s a mind, the intention that gives rise to mental action causes pleasure and pain to arise in oneself. But this is only when dependent on ignorance. By oneself one instigates the choice that gives rise to bodily, verbal, and mental action, conditioned by which that pleasure and pain arise in oneself. Or else others instigate the choice \u2026 One instigates the choice after deliberation \u2026 Or else one instigates the choice without deliberation \u2026 Ignorance is included in all these things. But when ignorance fades away and ceases with no residue left behind, that body, that voice, and that mind no longer exist dependent on which that pleasure and pain arise in oneself. That field does not exist, that ground does not exist, that dimension does not exist, that foundation does not exist, dependent on which that pleasure and pain arise in oneself.\u201d","title":"With Bh\u016bmija","tradition":"Samyutta Nikaya","translated_text":null,"word_count":741}