{"collection":"Samyutta Nikaya","full_text_available":true,"graph_url":"https://unchartedknowledge.5gfusion.net/v2/api/page/suttacentral_sn41.8/graph","html_url":"https://unchartedknowledge.5gfusion.net/v2/page/suttacentral_sn41.8","id":"suttacentral_sn41.8","license":"CC0","rights_basis":"suttacentral_bilara_data_cc0","source":"suttacentral","source_url":"https://suttacentral.net/sn41.8/en/sujato","summary":null,"tags":["Early Buddhist Texts","Samyutta Nikaya"],"text":"Now at that time the Jain ascetic of the \u00d1\u0101tika clan had arrived at Macchik\u0101sa\u1e47\u1e0da together with a large assembly of Jain ascetics. Citta the householder heard that they had arrived. Together with several lay followers, he went up to the Jain \u00d1\u0101tika and exchanged greetings with him. When the greetings and polite conversation were over, he sat down to one side. The Jain \u00d1\u0101tika said to him, \u201cHouseholder, do you have faith in the ascetic Gotama\u2019s claim that there is a state of immersion without placing the mind and keeping it connected; that there is the cessation of placing the mind and keeping it connected?\u201d \u201cSir, in this case I don\u2019t rely on faith in the Buddha\u2019s claim that there is a state of immersion without placing the mind and keeping it connected; that there is the cessation of placing the mind and keeping it connected.\u201d When he said this, the Jain \u00d1\u0101tika looked up at his assembly and said, \u201cSee, good sirs, how straightforward this householder Citta is! He\u2019s not devious or deceitful at all. To imagine that you can stop placing the mind and keeping it connected would be like imagining that you can catch the wind in a net, or dam the Ganges River with your own hand.\u201d \u201cWhat do you think, sir? Which is better\u2014knowledge or faith?\u201d \u201cKnowledge is definitely better than faith, householder.\u201d \u201cWell sir, whenever I want, quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskillful qualities, I enter and remain in the first absorption, which has the rapture and bliss born of seclusion, while placing the mind and keeping it connected. And whenever I want, as the placing of the mind and keeping it connected are stilled \u2026 I enter and remain in the second absorption. And whenever I want, with the fading away of rapture \u2026 I enter and remain in the third absorption. And whenever I want, giving up pleasure and pain \u2026 I enter and remain in the fourth absorption. And so, sir, since I know and see like this, why should I rely on faith in another ascetic or brahmin who claims that there is a state of immersion without placing the mind and keeping it connected; that there is the cessation of placing the mind and keeping it connected?\u201d When he said this, the Jain \u00d1\u0101tika looked askance at his own assembly and said, \u201cSee, good fellows, how crooked this householder Citta is! He\u2019s so devious and deceitful!\u201d \u201cSir, just now I understood you to say: \u2018See, good fellows, how straightforward this householder Citta is! He\u2019s not devious or deceitful at all.\u2019 But then I understood you to say: \u2018See, good fellows, how crooked this householder Citta is! He\u2019s so devious and deceitful!\u2019 If your first statement is true, the second is wrong. If your first statement is wrong, the second is true. And also, sir, these ten legitimate questions are relevant. When you understand what they mean, then, together with your assembly of Jain ascetics, you can rebut me. \u2018One thing: question, summary, and answer. Two \u2026 Three \u2026 Four \u2026 Five \u2026 Six \u2026 Seven \u2026 Eight \u2026 Nine \u2026 Ten things: question, summary, and answer.\u2019\u201d Then Citta rose from his seat and left without asking the Jain \u00d1\u0101tika these ten legitimate questions.","title":"The Jain Ascetic of the \u00d1\u0101tika Clan","tradition":"Samyutta Nikaya","translated_text":null,"word_count":547}